Raft of cheaper tablets cheapening the iPad experience?

[oberkc]

Would you prefer the first "modern" smart phone?

"Modern" is such an evolving definition. Most of the smartphones were pretty modern when first introduced. But to suggest that the iPhone is the first smartphone strikes me as an extemely limited definition of smartphone for failure to recognize or otherwise give any credit to palm, blackberry, and windows mobile as smartphones. That strikes me as a comment that only an extreme iFan would make.

 

[jsh1120]

"Modern" is such an evolving definition. Most of the smartphones were pretty modern when first introduced. But to suggest that the iPhone is the first smartphone strikes me as an extemely limited definition of smartphone for failure to recognize or otherwise give any credit to palm, blackberry, and windows mobile as smartphones. That strikes me as a comment that only an extreme iFan would make.

Way off topic in some ways but perhaps the following is worth noting.

() It's certainly true that the iPhone was not the first "smartphone." (As noted above.) I had both a Palm Treo and a Windows mobile phone and they both preceded the first iPhone. The best title for the iPhone, I suspect, is the first "consumer smartphone." It introduced the smartphone to millions of non-business users.

() The iPhone is by far the best selling product line of smartphones. By the same token, Android is by far the best selling operating system for smartphones. Depending upon the point one is trying to make, either of these facts may be relevant.

() In terms of current flagship model to model comparisons, the most reasonable is the iPhone 4S to the Galaxy Nexus or the Droid Razr. Depending on one's requirements and priorities, any of the three can be cited as the "best" phone.

* The iPhone probably has the "best" quality display but both the Nexus and Razr have excellent (and larger displays.)
* The iPhone has more apps than any other device but it's very difficult to find an important app that is not available in the Android marketplace.
* In terms of important native features such as notifications and GPS functionality, Android devices remain ahead of the iPhone. SIRI, on the other hand, is an iPhone exclusive.
* Tales of viruses and malware in the Android world are mostly hype fueled by vendors seeking to sell anti-virus software. But there is no question that the locked down OS of the iPhone is less vulnerable to such problems.
* For those who want to customize the user experience Android devices are far superior to the iPhone. That is true whether one compares stock devices or rooted/jailbroken devices.
* If one wants to take advantage of the much faster internet performance of 4G, there is no choice. The iPhone 4S is 3G now and forever.

Apart from a flagship to flagship comparison, the range of Android devices available for a large set of carriers means that customer need not spend $200-$300 on a phone that provides essential "smartphone functionality." In some people's eyes this makes those choices "POS's." From another perspective, it means that a user who wants specific features (such as a physical keyboard) can find a phone that meets their needs without breaking the bank.

To bring this back "on topic," that last point is the most relevant as an analogy.

 

[SweetPoison]

Great discussion guys! Just a reminder to keep things civil and respectful ~ not personal.

 

[oberkc]

Way off topic in some ways but perhaps the following is worth noting.

() It's certainly true that the iPhone was not the first "smartphone." (As noted above.) I had both a Palm Treo and a Windows mobile phone and they both preceded the first iPhone. The best title for the iPhone, I suspect, is the first "consumer smartphone." It introduced the smartphone to millions of non-business users.

() The iPhone is by far the best selling product line of smartphones. By the same token, Android is by far the best selling operating system for smartphones. Depending upon the point one is trying to make, either of these facts may be relevant.

() In terms of current flagship model to model comparisons, the most reasonable is the iPhone 4S to the Galaxy Nexus or the Droid Razr. Depending on one's requirements and priorities, any of the three can be cited as the "best" phone.

* The iPhone probably has the "best" quality display but both the Nexus and Razr have excellent (and larger displays.)
* The iPhone has more apps than any other device but it's very difficult to find an important app that is not available in the Android marketplace.
* In terms of important native features such as notifications and GPS functionality, Android devices remain ahead of the iPhone. SIRI, on the other hand, is an iPhone exclusive.
* Tales of viruses and malware in the Android world are mostly hype fueled by vendors seeking to sell anti-virus software. But there is no question that the locked down OS of the iPhone is less vulnerable to such problems.
* For those who want to customize the user experience Android devices are far superior to the iPhone. That is true whether one compares stock devices or rooted/jailbroken devices.
* If one wants to take advantage of the much faster internet performance of 4G, there is no choice. The iPhone 4S is 3G now and forever.

Apart from a flagship to flagship comparison, the range of Android devices available for a large set of carriers means that customer need not spend $200-$300 on a phone that provides essential "smartphone functionality." In some people's eyes this makes those choices "POS's." From another perspective, it means that a user who wants specific features (such as a physical keyboard) can find a phone that meets their needs without breaking the bank.

To bring this back "on topic," that last point is the most relevant as an analogy.

This stikes me as an unbiased perspective. Nice.

I have found interesting the question of how I would describe the iPhone in terms of firsts:

- touchscreen-only interface
- finger friendly UI
- yes, perhaps first "consumer" (non business or geek) smartphone

I think it worth having these discussions from time-to-time for the larger benefit of the forum. It seems to me that if we allow unchallenged certain attitudes (everything else is a "POS", apple devices are "perfect", etc...) to prevail, the interest in this forum becomes more limited to the apple partisans and less useful to the broader community seeking honest advice. I trust that this is consistent with the goals of the forum administrators.

 

[surgetek]

It was meant to be taken as there are alot of android phones and reading reviews alot are not great. I didn't mean they were all POS.

If you don't know Android phones, how are you in a position to decide even subjectively which are POS?

From what I've read, there are a good number of good Android phones. I've not switched to Android yet, but expect to. I'm holding off till the risks are worth it. For me, a hybrid phone-tablet like the Samsung Galaxy Note might be worth giving up the convenience of having all my mobile devices work together seamlessly, as they do on iOS.

 

[SweetPoison]

Let me start off by stating that this thread is NOT about Android vs. Apple.

I think it worth having these discussions from time-to-time for the larger benefit of the forum.

That is why this thread is here, correct?

It seems to me that if we allow unchallenged certain attitudes (everything else is a "POS", apple devices are "perfect", etc...) to prevail, the interest in this forum becomes more limited to the apple partisans and less useful to the broader community seeking honest advice. I trust that this is consistent with the goals of the forum administrators.

Seems to me that if we follow the rules ~ which should be now be read ~ this thread will continue. Not sure where our forum allows "unchallenged certain attitudes", came from and that "apple devices are perfect" idea.

This is a discussion board. Different POV's are allowed and challenged if done so respectfully and without personal commentary.

Having cleared this up ~ ends this discussion and back on topic.

If any one has not done so ~ might wanna hit those rules.

 

[Kaykaykay]

"Modern" is such an evolving definition. Most of the smartphones were pretty modern when first introduced. But to suggest that the iPhone is the first smartphone strikes me as an extemely limited definition of smartphone for failure to recognize or otherwise give any credit to palm, blackberry, and windows mobile as smartphones. That strikes me as a comment that only an extreme iFan would make.

JSH has posted a good explainer, so I won't go into that further.

As for me being an iFan, you clearly haven't seen my many posts criticizing various aspects of iTunes, Siri, Apple business practices, iOS upgrades, etc., on this forum. Interpreting my comment as you did is a reflection of your own perspective, rather than mine, but as SweetPoison says, this discussion is about the goods, rather than us.

For my money, there are great devices from many companies, as well as POS. And I will always buy the ones that give me most bang for my buck. Right now, I use Windows, iOS and Android (limited on Kindle Fire). And I'm hoping Samsung's Note will be good enough to be my first Android phone.

 

[Kaykaykay]

It was meant to be taken as there are alot of android phones and reading reviews alot are not great. I didn't mean they were all POS.

Reviews are the best way to narrow down choices, then try out at stores, etc., if possible. Clearly, there's no way any normal user can try out all phones available.

Before I decided whether to go with iPhone 4, I found at least six good Android options for my preferences and uses. Ultimately, there weren't enough advantages for me to switch from iOS to Android at the time, given bad apps and virus risks, and my iOS familiarity and previous app purchases and familiarity.

When it comes to picking the "best" Android phone, there is no such thing. People clearly will have preferences, which are subjective. You can compare the most popular, but that's about it. To say any Android phone is the best for users in general is to contradict the whole point of Android -- that it allows lots of room for preferences and customization.

 

[RAC]

The cheaper tablets will definitely put downward pressure on price. I bought a $200 Android for my wife. It does what is required of it (email & eBooks) but there's not doubt that the iPad is more polished.

On the other hand, when it came time to buy a smart phone, I opted for the Samsung Galaxy S II over the iPhone 4S. The big difference is that I was able to get it $200 cheaper than the official price, something that just isn't possible with Apple products.

There is nothing inferior about this phone and I think that the Galaxy Tablet will give the iPad a run for its money.

 

[Kaykaykay]

The cheaper tablets will definitely put downward pressure on price. I bought a $200 Android for my wife. It does what is required of it (email & eBooks) but there's not doubt that the iPad is more polished.
<snip>
There is nothing inferior about this phone and I think that the Galaxy Tablet will give the iPad a run for its money.

Samsung is making some really nice devices. The Apple advantage is a combo of hardware and a content environment. I really wish Android would step up that way. Great hardware is limited by convenient access to apps and other content. If you have to wonder whether your apps are trustworthy, for instance, you're buying inconvenience.

 

[Kaykaykay]

I think it worth having these discussions from time-to-time for the larger benefit of the forum. It seems to me that if we allow unchallenged certain attitudes (everything else is a "POS", apple devices are "perfect", etc...) to prevail, the interest in this forum becomes more limited to the apple partisans and less useful to the broader community seeking honest advice. I trust that this is consistent with the goals of the forum administrators.

Discussions involve information, not name-calling and running off. So in the interest of discussion, how about you step up with more informational posts on this thread and others?

One thing I'm particularly interested in is data security on mobile devices.

 

[oberkc]

how about you step up with more informational posts

I believe that I have offered informational responses to this post. I have spoken in this post about video monitoring on tablets, integration with home automation, etc...

Discussions involve information, not name-calling and running off.

I am also willing to abide by the moderators direction that this discussion is over.

 

[s2mikey]

The More I think about this whole "cheapening" thing the more I dont believe it will be an issue. Thats because the cheaper tablets are different brand products with different hardware and other stuff. Its like saying that the lower cost sports car Cheapens the Ferrari experience which we know isnt true. The cheaper sports car just does less and maybe goes slower but it serves a need or a market segment. The key is that we are talking about different companies' products here. Just because a cheaper version of a similar product is available in other industries doesnt "dumb" down or "cheapen" the better products.

Now, if Apple were to release a cheapo, slapped together version of the iPad that didnt work well and had a bad reputation..... THEN we might have a little more of a problem. Does that make sense or am I not jiving with ya'll?

 

[RAC]

Samsung is making some really nice devices. The Apple advantage is a combo of hardware and a content environment. I really wish Android would step up that way. Great hardware is limited by convenient access to apps and other content. If you have to wonder whether your apps are trustworthy, for instance, you're buying inconvenience.

When it comes to buying apps I have to say that I can't see much difference, as far convenience is concerned, between the iWorld and Android. All you need is a Google account.

The same goes for eBooks, I can read my Amazon purchases on either the iPad or Android any time I choose.

There is actually a plethora of apps and admittedly more to be concerned about with regard to security. Just as with the AppStore there is a lot of rubbish, probably more, with a core of quality apps, in fact many of the quality aps that you find in the AppStore are also to be found in the Android Market.

As for music, I tend to rip mine (mostly classical) from CDs that I had had for years so I can't comment on that.

 

[oberkc]

When it comes to buying apps I have to say that I can't see much difference, as far convenience is concerned, between the iWorld and Android. All you need is a Google account.

I took the nod towards apple with regards to convenience as suggesting that there is more confidence that the "app store" apps tend to guarantee greater security ("trustowrthy") than does the apps from the android market. I am not sure that I would disagree.