What's new
Apple iPad Forum

Welcome to the Apple iPad Forum, your one stop source for all things iPad. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The Reason for No Flash

Dorje

iPF Noob
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
340
Reaction score
1
Perhaps HTML5 will kill flash several long years down the road... however that doesn't mean Adobe's presence on the web needs to die with it. I need go dig up the article again if I can, but I've been seeing enough suggestions that if Adobe just repurposes their authoring software to spit out HTML5 (when it is adopted as a full standard) then they are likely to remain a preferred producer of content production software just by market inertia of all the Flash developers that won't want to switch to a new development environment. Considering they've got it setup to spit out native iPhone and I think soon Android Apps, it would be an amazing oversight if they didn't.

Unless Adobe does something brilliant (would anyone like to try putting together odds on that?) with the mobile FlashPlayer for Multi-Touch keyboardless systems it is going to be a horrible train wreak in the public eye. Many Flash Games will not work without some spectacular interface work-around, lack of keyboard input worst of all.
 

mac

iPF Noob
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
64
Reaction score
0
Location
Sweden
I suspect the mass want Flash, and the iPad will suffer without it.

Yep... the lack of flash is just killing iPhone sales. :D

I'm assuming you're being ironic/facetious with this response.

Of course the lack of Flash isn't killing iPhone sales, but it probably isn't helping.

First, for most people their iPhone is not their primary (or even secondary) web browsing device. Not because of lack of Flash, but because of screen size and the iPhone's relatively slow performance as a web browser. This is probably why Safari in all it's forms only accounts for around 5-6% of installed browsers; and around 2% of total browser usage. If the iPhone was so huge these numbers would be much bigger.

Second, if the iPhone was supposed to be a mass market product then, yes, its sales have definitely been killed by something. Nokia sells 1.3 million phones a day. Even Samsung sells around 550,000 a day. The iPhone sells around 30,000. If the iPhone was intended as a mass market product then it has failed. But it wasn't supposed to be a mass market product, and it isn't. It's a niche product. And it has succeeded very well in it's niche. But web browsing probably isn't the reason why.

Web browsing right now (until someone comes up with a new use) is one of the iPad's primary reasons to exist. Flash is, like it or not, a big part of the web for the masses. Why? Because the web doesn't look like the web without it. Simple as that. Also, they can't get access to everything they can normally get access to. Doesn't matter what that stuff is. It's just the fact that it's not accessible.

With Flash the iPad will be a niche product. Without it it'll be smaller.

And here's a thing. The bigger the iPad becomes, the cheaper the content available for it becomes. If it carried Flash then you could have access to hundreds of free magazines at the iPad's launch. Without it you'll be paying about the same as you would for the paper copies of those magazines in order to buy them as apps.
 
Last edited:

Dorje

iPF Noob
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
340
Reaction score
1
And how many of those flash based magazines would work with a multi-touch interface from the start? Forgetting the iPad, and looking around all the up-coming multi-touch devices. If the interface of whatever flash app your looking at can't deal with a lack of full keyboard and mouse (pointer) then its toast for multi-touch and would have be rebuilt anyways to cater to that device market.
 
Last edited:

IpadOne

iPF Noob
Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Messages
1,245
Reaction score
0
Location
Asia
I suspect the mass want Flash, and the iPad will suffer without it.

Yep... the lack of flash is just killing iPhone sales. :D

I'm assuming you're being ironic/facetious with this response.

Of course the lack of Flash isn't killing iPhone sales, but it probably isn't helping.

First, for most people their iPhone is not their primary (or even secondary) web browsing device. Not because of lack of Flash, but because of screen size and the iPhone's relatively slow performance as a web browser. This is probably why Safari in all it's forms only accounts for around 5-6% of installed browsers; and around 2% of total browser usage. If the iPhone was so huge these numbers would be much bigger.

Second, if the iPhone was supposed to be a mass market product then, yes, its sales have definitely been killed by something. Nokia sells 1.3 million phones a day. Even Samsung sells around 550,000 a day. The iPhone sells around 30,000. If the iPhone was intended as a mass market product then it has failed. But it wasn't supposed to be a mass market product, and it isn't. It's a niche product. And it has succeeded very well in it's niche. But web browsing probably isn't the reason why.

Web browsing right now (until someone comes up with a new use) is one of the iPad's primary reasons to exist. Flash is, like it or not, a big part of the web for the masses. Why? Because the web doesn't look like the web without it. Simple as that. Also, they can't get access to everything they can normally get access to. Doesn't matter what that stuff is. It's just the fact that it's not accessible.

With Flash the iPad will be a niche product. Without it it'll be smaller.

And here's a thing. The bigger the iPad becomes, the cheaper the content available for it becomes. If it carried Flash then you could have access to hundreds of free magazines at the iPad's launch. Without it you'll be paying about the same as you would for the paper copies of those magazines in order to buy them as apps.
Mac frankly speaking, i don't miss that much the flash in my Iphone , and i have made a test with my MBP without flash ... i don't see so big trouble for talk so much about that ... i assume most of user will buy without knowing clearly what is flash and if they need or not ....

Far as i know Android too doesn't have flash , and i don't read so many comment about this point ...
 

kilofox

iPF Noob
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
74
Reaction score
2
mac said:
Nokia sells 1.3 million phones a day. Even Samsung sells around 550,000 a day. The iPhone sells around 30,000. If the iPhone was intended as a mass market product then it has failed. But it wasn't supposed to be a mass market product, and it isn't. It's a niche product. And it has succeeded very well in it's niche. But web browsing probably isn't the reason why.

Those totals for Nokia and Samsung include a ton of dumbphones. Apple has one model in production, the 3GS. I might be wrong, but I would be surprised if any phone manufacturer has a smartphone that competes with the 3GS in sales.

Personally I am and Android fan.... but I have to give the iPhone its due. I did have a 3GS in the past, its web browser is still the best I have used on a mobile device.

To me... it seems a little "dated" to have a plugin i.e. Flash to view a video or have interactive content on a Web site, when HTML 5 is much more elegant and less taxing on resources than Flash.

Finally, Flash sites are not accessible to people with vision impairments. (this is a broader issue and not an iPad issue)
 
Last edited:

mwhibben

iPF Noob
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Location
High Rolls, NM
Can we get back to Flash on the iPad?

Okay, I get that people haven't missed Flash on the iPhone, and that Apple sells alot of iPhones. Yes, most people don't use their iPhone as a web browser because the screen is too small, and therefore haven't missed Flash. Special purpose applications like YouTube on iPhone have been targeted to fill the Flash gap on iPhone to some degree. Should the iPad be hobbled the same way? This may be the biggest strategic problem with using iPhone OS on the iPad. The iPad processor will certainly be more powerful than the iPhone and capable of being more than iPhone OS will allow. Personally, I wonder if backward compatibility with iPhone apps was really worth it. For the record, I'm on this forum because I'm interested in the iPad as a social and technical phenomenon, not necessarily because I intend to buy one. I haven't made up my mind about that. I didn't realize how much I would miss Flash until I tried web surfing without it. It sure wasn't the "best browsing experience you've ever had" as Jobs promised, as I describe more fully in my blog at Mark's Tech Chat It may be that iPad will be saved by these "gap filler" apps and its great games and ebook potential. I certainly hope so, but for me personally, web browsing would have been the main use, so Flash is important.
 

mac

iPF Noob
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
64
Reaction score
0
Location
Sweden
And how many of those flash based magazines would work with a multi-touch interface from the start? Forgetting the iPad, and looking around all the up-coming multi-touch devices. If the interface of whatever flash app your looking at can't deal with a lack of full keyboard and mouse (pointer) then its toast for multi-touch and would have be rebuilt anyways to cater to that device market.

All of them. They're all on my website to be launched in a month or so. Right now it's only built with Flash. And if the penetration of devices with big enough screens and no Flash capability gets large enough we'll code the site for them, but right now I think that this will be at least a year down the road.
 

mac

iPF Noob
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
64
Reaction score
0
Location
Sweden
I assume most of user will buy without knowing clearly what is flash and if they need or not ....

I suspect/hope that most iPad customers will buy one knowing that they don't need Flash, because those that buy one without knowing what Flash is will probably be back the next day demanding a refund.
 

IpadOne

iPF Noob
Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Messages
1,245
Reaction score
0
Location
Asia
Don't confuse, i don't talk about the geek or the early adopter ... a part of my job is have an eye in the market and the consumer behavior .... you will be surprised to know the quantity of people have an Iphone and never set their email ...

3 days ago a friend of me have an Iphone 1Gen ask me why i never can use the map and You tube .... he have this device for two year ... he just don't enter the data connection information ...

Difficult to believe but is the true

Of course us is different we made all settings well and we enjoy 100% of our devices, but we are a small percent of buyer

Update: bad news for Adobe after Hulu , Virgin America quit the Flash boat

Source
 
Last edited:

Ellie

iPF Noob
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
219
Reaction score
0
Location
Murrells Inlet, SC
I would rather have more battery time than flash. It is going to be just like Iphone and I am happy with that. The guy who commented earlier about needing a keyboard for games-this is a touch screen yes but there is an inbuilt keyboard and if that is not enough for you you can by the keyboard accessories.
 

Dorje

iPF Noob
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
340
Reaction score
1
The software keyboard would need to be called somehow. It likely won't have a user activated appearance. That means the website would have to somehow tell mobile Safari that it needs to bring up the keyboard, again not something you'd see as a default feature. There is also an issue of screen space when that keyboard comes up. It'll be better the the iPad but it could still be a problem with larger flash(html5) games/apps.

Yes you can use the add-on keyboard and for more power users or heavy emailers it will work in a desk environment, but what about on a bus? Car pool? Plane flight? Do you keep the keyboard with you at all times? What about sidewase use (giving even less space for content, although sidewase could be adressed with Bluetooth keyboard)?

What about press and hold? Try it with the iPod/iPhone software keyboard... which I had not realized would bring up extra character options before now like " can be » or « , ¡Æ!
 

Ellie

iPF Noob
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
219
Reaction score
0
Location
Murrells Inlet, SC
The only games I play are basic solitare and other card games. Of course I may get more involved with Ipad but I doubt it. I leave that up to you Younguns!
 

justindw

iPF Noob
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
Idaho
Wired and the iPad

Hey everyone, so I was wondering if anyone has seen the wired magazine video on youtube? It shows the magazine working with adobe to create a really cool experience for looking at the so called magazine. So does that mean it will have flash? Because I was under the impression that it wasn't. Also where's the Camera and SD slots!? Maybe later generations. But if i have any of this wrong please let me know.

Also I found this funny iPad commercial on youtube.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZHQ7hcdh9U"]iPad video[/ame]
 

IpadOne

iPF Noob
Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Messages
1,245
Reaction score
0
Location
Asia
Justin far as we know ... no flash in the Ipad , and reader card slot is an external accessory , concerning the camera nothing it really clear yet ...
 

Most reactions

Latest posts

Top