Apple bashing -why?

Discussion in 'iPad General Discussions' started by Seadog, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. Seadog
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    Seadog Super Moderator Staff Member

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    As a long time user of Apple products, I have to wonder why people come on here just to bash iPads and Apple? Fanboy being bounced around as an insult, or put down. I admire what Apple has done under Steve Jobs oversight, but I would never consider him as anything more than a highly skilled technology designer and salesman. I will say that both myself and my BIL talked about how we should buy up a lot of Apple stock when Jobs retook the helm in the 90s and the stock was at rock bottom. We just could not bring ourselves to borrow that much cash to invest with at the time. Our big regret.

    I hate Microsoft's software, but it was Gates who bailed out Apple, even if it was to get rid of federal investigations in their monopoly of the market. And some of the hardware products they make, are better for my usage than the Mac versions. It seems that any company that is doing much better than its competition, is some evil monster.

    The Flash thread that was deleted got nasty because there were those who could not excuse anyone who understood why Apple did not want to sell a product with Flash capability. The reality is that dispite years of trying, it was only when Apple brought out the iPad that a tablet computer was successful. Yet, there are too many people yelling, "Just wait until XXXXX comes out with their version. It has not happened, and it will years before decet competition happens. Just like the iPhone has dominated the market. And when people claim that Apple is not out to be the number one seller of any product, they do not understand. Look at the cell phone market. Apple was late to the game, but they brought out a product that totally stood the industr on end. As many iPhones as they have sold, they only hold about 4-5% of the market share. The other manufacturers sell a lot more phones. But because the iPhone is so much ahead of its competitors, that 5% of product share equates to 39% of the profit share Or put it this way, for every iPhone they make $20 profit while the major manufacturers like Nokia, LG, Motorola, etc only makes $.08. And the same way with the iPad, iPods, etc. They make enough of their products to sell at the sticker value, while the other manufacturers are cutting prices to a minimum.

    I think that many people here should get a grip on life and not worry about what they think Apple should make. Apple will make what they think will sell. If they don't sell, they are the ones that has to live with it. Even if the majority of people do not buy Apple products, it is going to improve the offerings of every competing product.
  2. epb
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    epb iPad Junkie

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    Wow. It's almost like you expect a rational discussion. Where'd you get the idea that was possible? ;)
  3. Wakawaka
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    Wakawaka iPad Junkie

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    Just like the union guys who have to drive American - until I show em the door jam sticker in their vehicle "assembled in Canada". Then I show em the one in my nissian. America.

    Point? It's a never ending war.
  4. iVan
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    iVan iPad Ninja

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    Then there's the question:"Why is there so much violence in this world?"

    Passions and needs run deep in a being, deep enough to transgress fundamental laws of public behavior...
  5. DaveSt
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    DaveSt iPad Junkie

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    You must have gotten something completely different out of the Flash thread than I did. The really nasty replies (one in particular) didn't come from the side decrying the lack of Flash, but rather from the side "defending" Apple. Perhaps this is where the "fanboy" references get thrown in. People love their Apple products (I know I am quite fond of mine) and sometimes that level of adoration attracts the wrong crowd. Still, sometimes the opposite happens. As soon as people suggest how the products can be better they are looked at sideways because there is no way Apple could have made a poor decision. I don't think this is unique to Apple. Any company with a loyal user base probably sees much the same thing.

    I believe there are some very good reasons to "bash" on Apple, although lack of Flash or any other feature on current devices isn't even close to the reason. Then again, those reasons should be well known to people by now and if they have a problem with Apple they should simply not buy the products and move on. I think it is just human nature to pick on the guy at the top, and right now that happens to be Apple. MS has gone through much the same thing over the years, as have GM, Toyota, etc.

    Still, your point is well taken. This is a forum for actual users (or potential users) of the Ipad, and people signing on to simply stir the pot should perhaps move on to better things. As for me, I do own some Apple stock although looking back I wish I had bet the house on it. I hope Apple keeps on keeping on!
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2010
  6. pallentx
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    pallentx iPad Junkie

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    I cant speak for others in that thread, but my issues have less to do with Apple not supporting flash and more to do with their attempt to destroy flash and have it removed from the Internet. I understand they have good reasons for not supporting it, their hardware is just not fast enough - it can be a resource hog.

    As for "bashing", I dont think there is any mega company out there that is going to be honest about issues like this. The fact that I like some of Apple's products doesn't mean I think they are some benevolent entity. They play hardball just like everyone else. Steve Jobs' top priority is increasing the wealth of the shareholders and that will be done at any expense - just as it would be done at Microsoft, Sun, Oracle, Dell, HP, or any other mega-company.
  7. iPadCharlie
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    iPadCharlie iPad Super Guru

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    I am a member of an organization that teaches it's members to subdue their passions, but sometimes I don't do a very good job at it!
  8. jkhonea
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    jkhonea iPad Fan

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    I was at a panel discussion Monday with an upper employee of Apple and Google both in attendance answering questions. I will say this, Google indicated they weren't thrilled with Flash either and would also push for HTML5 development, specifically because of how it runs on mobile devices compared to Flash. I think Google just isn't as vocal against Flash as Apple but is definitely behind the shift, also.

    Just my take on it.
  9. pallentx
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    pallentx iPad Junkie

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    Frustrations with flash go back at least 10 years, but there has never been such a push to destroy it like I have seen since Apple and Adobe had their recent, public dispute.

    Pointing out where you are disappointed with a company is not "bashing". I see the same kind of marketing spin used at my own company and I enjoy working here and being a part of it. I just want people to see it for what it is and not just put on our rose-colored glasses because we love Apple and they can do no wrong.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2010
  10. Tinman
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    Tinman iPad Junkie

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    Sorry, I think those kinds of personal attacks are completely out of line and show the debater has nothing else to offer but a cheap shot. The irony of course is that they don't even know if the person they are attacking is really an Apple supporter. I don't even own a single Mac, for instance.

    Plenty of people in that thread disagreed without taking it to this kind of level: "Apple fanboys does not equal intelligent debate."



    Michael
  11. Pinchot
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    Pinchot iPF Noob

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    Not wanting to reopen the flash debate, I believe that I would gladly live without flash in order to have a tablet like the iPad that lasts all day on a charge, and gives us a very nice, fast internet experience. Flash is a resource hog, and it requires more processing power in order to use it. So you end up with more power than you need, a system that runs hotter than it has to, more expensive and runs out of juice after two hours. That's a netbook. I had one, and I got rid of it. The iPad succeeds where the netbook fails because it does NOT pretend to be a full laptop.

    Has anyone tried flash on one of the android devices? I mean real flash, not a recompiled version of flash optimized for smart phones. It is SLOW. Why bother with that? Instead of redoing all of the flash so there are two versions of everything (one for PC's and one for phones), just go with HTML5. It just makes sense to do so.
  12. wrecklass
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    wrecklass iPad Enthusiast

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    I think the reasons for "fanboism" are varied and deep.

    Part of it lies in basic human psychology. Maslow showed that people are social beings with a need to feel connected. This accounts for a lot of what we refer to as "Tribalism." When a person becomes attached to a group (country, religion, technical organization) they can become extremely defensive of that group. For some people this can become nearly an obsession. Pointed in positive directions this can mean advancing the groups worth. In more negative directions we get wars.

    Competitiveness is another human trait. When members of an organization feel threatened, they can become obsessed with "pushing back" the competition. The Apple "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" commercials were entertaining to one group, and insulting to the other. They created a polarizing effect which fanned the flames. Unfortunately for some people the flame burns deep enough without encouragement.

    I think the new social rules are:

    • Never discuss politics at work
    • Never discuss religion at dinner
    • Never discuss your OS preference on the Internet
    • If your wife asks you if another woman is attractive, act like you didn't hear her and change the subject
    :)
  13. Billee
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    Billee iPF Novice

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    I'm a long time Microsoft user and the iPad was my first Apple product. Here's my take on the discussion.

    1) Apple makes the most technically slick, user-friendly products on the market.

    2) I feel constrained and limited by Apple's control of what I run on the device.

    3) I was turned off by the buying experience. Going to the Apple store was like entering the temple of some techno cult. I spoke to several sales people and they all had the same attitude: "You have come to the source of all things wonderful and we know what you need better than you do."
  14. bdegrande
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    bdegrande iPF Novice

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    People on the Internet feel a compulsion to give authoritative opinions on things they know nothing about. In general, Windows bashers (which I am not, I use all sorts of operating systems) have used Windows and dislike it for specific reasons, while Apple bashers have never owned a machine running OS X or iOS.
  15. Seadog
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    Seadog Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I have found Apple does the best job of an integrated experience that does more with less hassle. It is by no means a perfect experience, but it is impressive by comparison. I use XP at work, and have Win 7 and XP at home, but we use our Macs for most usage. My experience with Win 7 leaves me unimpressed and often I go back to using XP. Other than a few tweaks, Win 7 leaves me with the impression of XP in a clown suit. Of course, I have not used it much, so we will see.

    My big issue is bloatware from Microsoft, Adobe, and so many others. Adobe Acrobat professional is a pain to use compared to Word, and Office has gotten far away from a good basic program. And for what they cost retail, I could have a top notch iPad or laptop. Considering the number of basic office programs that are inexpensive, it is silly. And many can write .xl or .doc formats.
  16. pallentx
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    pallentx iPad Junkie

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    opinions - we all have them. We all find different products that suit us. Personally, I dont think there is any such thing as "the best" when it comes to Apple/Microsoft/Palm/Android or whatever type arguments. What is "bloatware" to one user is the only option with the robust features to do the job for another. I found Windows 7 to be a significant leap forward for Windows, but my mom still prefers Windows 98 (I know, I dont get it either). Some people like the simple, safe approach of Apple, some people feel confined and frustrated by it. I dont hate any brands out there. I try not to really have any personal, emotional feelings about them at all. They each try to do things their own way to appeal to their niche of customers.
  17. Tinman
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    Tinman iPad Junkie

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    If you ever had to endure Vista, you wouldn't mind Windows 7. ;)



    Michael
  18. wrecklass
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    wrecklass iPad Enthusiast

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    Lol, excellent example of the kind of absolutist talk you hear from so called fanboys. Primarily because it is provably false. Although I don't know if you meant it as such.

    I have a good friend who I have worked with for over 20 years now. We have developed and used nearly every platform, but we both used Macintosh almost exclusively for most of that time.

    My friends current laptop is a MacBook Pro, which he has had no end of troubles with. There have been numerous article about these issues, but he cannot get Apple to replace the machine. If you were to talk to him you would correctly lable him an "Apple hater." He will not purchase any Apple products, and has pretty much banned them on his development team. He is a VP of development at the company I work for.

    This is not the result of a single laptop that has failed. He has been displeased with Apples straight jacket approach for a number of years now and finally got fed up.

    I suspect that this is a pattern with many "haters" on both sides of the fence. It takes a lot to get a fan unhappy, but once it happens they tend to be the most vocal of the opposition.
  19. iPadCharlie
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    iPadCharlie iPad Super Guru

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    Amen!

    I belong (or have belonged) to about 20 forums (at last count!) and I discovered a long time ago that if I want accurate, technical information, I will go to a "trusted" source which is usually the manufacturer. OTOH, if I want opinions, I will go to an Internet forum!

    I have also learned that when someone asks a question on a forum, they don't want:

    1) A lecture on how easy it would have been to find the answer if they had done a search on the forum.

    2) A lecture on how easy it would have been to find the answer by doing a Google search.

    3) To be told to look in the owner's manual.

    4) To be told how to find the answer.

    If you do one of those 4 things, you end up sounding like a jerk! People just want their question answered. It amazes me that people have enough computer "smarts" to find a forum to post a question, but yet are unable to use that same process to find the answers to their questions.

    [/rant] off
  20. devis
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    devis iPF Novice

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    Good point. But there are those times when the question either hasn't been asked before or it has been asked by such few number of people that googling it would result in an infinite amount of word matches. In brief, it is easier to look for "ipad forum" and ask "what's the best way to cut out my tmobile SIM to fit in the iPad slot." Or it could be that people are just lazy. I tend to favor this last one :)

    As for Apple bashing, I've never done much of it with the exception that half of the techno ignorant world inhabitants out there are now supertechies cause they bought an iSomething. And I'm sick and tired of people telling me what fantastic thing the iSomething is.
    Had touched the iPhone maybe 2-3 times at a couple of minutes each time. It was October of 2007. I'm at the coffee shop, flipping through the internet while at the same time listening to some music with my BT stereo headset, both activities being done in my old HTC Wizard. Someone aproaches and asks for a cig. I offer him one, then he starts asking me about the stereo BT. we engaged in a conversation, then he pulls out his iPhone and I'm quite sure he could pair the headset too. So we try... and of course the end result was a nill. Not only was he shocked, I was quite surprised. I mean for heaven's sake Apple has had BT in their laptops way before any Windows computer ever did. Granted, they didn't do A2DP, that had to be enabled via terminal commands. But I'm looking at this guy who's got the "latest and greatest" and it doesn't even do half the things my 200 MHz Wizard could do, and I paid about half what he paid!
    So no, I don't bash Apple. Just the people who think Apple is at the bleeding edge of technology.
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