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Why is iPad 3 behind in specs?

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ipadetheridge

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Currently the highest graphical game on the iPad has barley noticeable difference in graphics between iPad 2 and 3. Higher res does not technically mean its going to have better graphics. AQ_OC, your answer makes more sense. Thanks
 

AQ_OC

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ipadetheridge said:
Currently the highest graphical game on the iPad has barley noticeable difference in graphics between iPad 2 and 3. Higher res does not technically mean its going to have better graphics. AQ_OC, your answer makes more sense. Thanks

Here are some game shots. The higher res does make a difference and the game play is smooth. I thought I had rotated these.....
 

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Skull One

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Skull, no one asked for your sarcasm bro.

I am sorry you can't tell the difference between sarcasm and factual statements. But, simply put, there was no sarcasm. I responded to what you typed, not what you intended. Mainly because I can't read your mind.

Let start over with a more literal question: What is Apples future goals in utilizing the potential of the new iPads GPU? I know the difference in the CPU and GPU. If they provide 4 cores to administer graphics, surely they will develope apps that will better use it's potential. Right now, compared the the iPad 2, they are not that far off in comparison. I assume developers will create games just for iPad 3 and leave the iPad 2 users hanging.

Apple has no goal now. Their goal was to create the iPad (3rd Gen) and they have accomplished that. It is now the job of the developers to utilize the increased resolution and GPU that is now available. Apple also provided us developers with XCode 4.3 as well as the ability to add @2x to our graphic assets for iPad resources. This allows graphics to be at twice the resolution of the iPad (1st Gen) and 2.

Developers CAN NOT produce applications for the iPad (3rd Gen) that will not work on the iPad 2. It is literally and technically impossible. Now what can happen is the frame rate of the same application can suffer on the iPad 2 compared to the iPad (3rd gen). But that would be very poor programming on the developers part. Mainly because he has to provide the @1x graphic assets which don't require a quad core GPU to display.

Remember, the CPUs between the iPad 2 and iPad (3rd Gen) are identically. That means the code physically has to run at the same speed. The only increase in speed is the blitting of graphic assets to the drawing surface and 3D rendering of objects. Since the texture mapping is the single largest slow down, the developer simply has to provide the lower resolution assets to stay within the speed of the iPad 2.
 

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ipadetheridge, this is not meant to be critical, but your comments indicate that you are ignorant of why the iPad and other Apple devices are so popular and highly valued. Apple is not in the game of trying to compete with numbers. Fastest processor, number of cores, etc. are all nonsense that mean very little. Very few people can get the maximum benefit out of a basic laptop today. The iPad was built with a goal as a user's device. Every bit of the unit was designed for just what it is doing for people. If they were to put a big processor into it, it would be like putting a Dodge Hemi in a Honda. Not very practical. The iPad sets a target of 10 hours of average use from the battery. That means the processor has to be very efficient. And the user experience has to be smooth. For all the big processors in the other tablets, they do not give the flowing, smooth action of the iPads. Apple is conservative in the components it uses. All tried and true parts that are thoroughly tested. It is the application and refinement of use that Apple excels at. That and extremely top-notch customer service.
 

seneca18

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Here are some game shots. The higher res does make a difference and the game play is smooth. I thought I had rotated these.....

Hey what game is that? I'm not a big gamer but that looks pretty cool.
 

zphone

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Ipadethridge, what do you find is so much faster on other tablets that have quad core CPUs and 12 core graphics? If the answer is nothing then I would suggest you do some research on why you have such a large misunderstanding of what specs really mean.

Also the idea that the ps3 games use only three cores out of 8 is BS. PS3 has 7 usable asymmetric cores and all of them are used.
 

AQ_OC

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Hey what game is that? I'm not a big gamer but that looks pretty cool.

AirSupremancy....

i'm not a big gamer either...but I always use games to tell how fast my systems are. On my PC, I want game worthy hardware, well, except I don't spend $500/$600 on a graphics card...I buy or two levels down (since I don't really play games)...but on the iPad the hardware is free and the games are WAY less expensive...but these is the software that really shows why the machine can do...so when you worry about specs...just look at what has the best games.
 
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ipadetheridge

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I came on this forum because I knew I was going to get a solid answer with out BS. I also knew I was going to have to be bold unlike the other forums. My personality does not reflex well on a forum. I got the answeres I was looking to get on here. Sorry for my "know it all" attitude. I really do not know anything about how the iPad works so that's why I came on here to get answers. I was also really sick and on medication last night. My girlfriend said I was being a butt hole ha. I know I was. :). Thanks for the honest answeres guys.

I am pretty sure a lot of developers who create games, including Bulldog, mentioned that the to GPU has not even come close to the its full potential in the PS3 because of cost. Considering the Xbox is the main rendering plateform, ps3 suffers. I was also told by a tech that he was pretty sure all 7 cores on the Ps3 are not being used because it would cost a fortune at this point to develope such graphical games. I was not stating I believed him but That the info I got from a computer tech who makes games. I was thinking this would be the same case for iPad 2 and 3. Being the iPad 2 has less GPU I wanted to know if there would be games only for the iPad 3.
 
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ipadetheridge

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It would cost a developer double even triple the cost to create the same game on both Xbox and PS3. Considering the Xbox is the weakest link, it is the plateform it is rendered from. Therefor this cuts costs and saves them time and money. Xbox is already over clocked to hell to keep up and the Ps3 is barely breaking lose. These are facts not opinions from Sony. How do I know this info: because two of my friends go to school for game developing. They where also interested in to knowing what app developers plan to do. Will more games be created on the iPad 2 and cause the iPad 3 to have to suffer as the the same with Xbox and ps3? I guess time will tell as mentioned before.
 

zphone

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I see where you are going with this PS3 thing. If xbox written games are straight ported then the PS3 hardware is not used to potential, however even with a port there is a significant rewrite as the ps3 is so different and threads cannot be used the same way as on the xbox. So while the rewrite is mostly automated it's just not true that they can just use 3-4 cores as what the xbox has and leave the rest unused. Depending on what type of game it is, even with a port the game may be better suited for ps3 and may run better than on xbox or if it's the wrong type then it will not run as well.

With the iPad the competition would seem to have 'better' hardware with more CPUs and GPUs. But if anything the reality would indicate that either developers are not taking advantage of it or cannot because the system is so poorly implemented as a whole.
 

Skull One

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I came on this forum because I knew I was going to get a solid answer with out BS. I also knew I was going to have to be bold unlike the other forums. My personality does not reflex well on a forum. I got the answeres I was looking to get on here. Sorry for my "know it all" attitude. I really do not know anything about how the iPad works so that's why I came on here to get answers. I was also really sick and on medication last night. My girlfriend said I was being a butt hole ha. I know I was. :). Thanks for the honest answeres guys.

I am pretty sure a lot of developers who create games, including Bulldog, mentioned that the to GPU has not even come close to the its full potential in the PS3 because of cost. Considering the Xbox is the main rendering plateform, ps3 suffers. I was also told by a tech that he was pretty sure all 7 cores on the Ps3 are not being used because it would cost a fortune at this point to develope such graphical games. I was not stating I believed him but That the info I got from a computer tech who makes games. I was thinking this would be the same case for iPad 2 and 3. Being the iPad 2 has less GPU I wanted to know if there would be games only for the iPad 3.

Well I have personally developed for both the Xbox 360 and PS3 as part of my "continuing education" in software development. While I haven't released anything professionally for either platform, I did write custom sprite engines and "mini demo games" to see how things work. First and foremost I can assure you that the PS3 uses all of its cores as long as the developer uses "threads" in his code. There is nothing special about this type of coding, in fact it is the industry standard. The only issue you run into with threads is locking issues when you want to exchange the completed data between them. And with some simple API calls and solid "semaphore locking" strategies you can overcome even that issue with ease.

The PS3 is technically harder to code for than the Xbox 360. This has nothing to do with the actual SDK however. It has to do with a design choice made in the very early days of the PS3's hardware design. The PS3, unlike the Xbox 360, uses a split memory configuration for the Graphics Data and Program Code. This split memory design is the Achilles heel and can not be fixed without a complete redesign of the PS3. I will give the ten cent tour on the issue to help clear this matter up.

There are two memory segments in the PS3. They are separated in such a way that the only way you can move data from one to the other is to lock down the memory bus and do a direct DMA transfer. This design was created by hardware idiots that didn't bother to ask the software gurus what they really needed. So here are two scenarios with the first being how it should have worked for all of the memory and the second being what really happens today. The first scenario is all seven cores are running code. Core one requests data/code from the main memory. This request goes into a queue and when its turn on the bus comes up, it gets its data/code and continues on its merry way. If all seven cores make requests at the same time, the cores simply get put into a wait state while each request is fulfilled.The delay time as the request are fulfilled are down in the microsecond range. This design is the industry standard for all PCs currently on the market as well as the Xbox 360. Now scenario two is what happens today with the PS3. When data is needed by a cpu core from the graphics side of the memory bus, the graphics cores have to be locked down from memory access and at the same time all cpu cores have to be locked down from accessing the memory bus. That means for a brief moment in time there is no further memory bus processing occurring. The data is then moved from graphics side to the data/program side of memory. Then the cpu core that made the request can access that data. And finally all memory locks can be released with everyone going back to normal operation.

This design is beyond idiotic. The greatest example of how this effects a game is Grand Turismo 5. Look at the shadows of each of the cars. They are garbage. The reason? The programmer knew he couldn't afford to lock down the memory bus constantly to check for the full lighting effects to see how the shadow is effected. The amount of time it would take would kill the overall frame rate of the game because of how much memory locking would occur. Compare that to the XBox 360 and Forza Motorsport 4. The shadows on it look much better because the Xbox 360 doesn't have a split memory system. There is no need to lock everything down. All processors share the bus as normal.

This is why PS3 development has lagged behind the XBox 360. Sony has tried desperately to mitigate this by constantly working on the SDK used for the PS3. When I was developing with it back in 2009 I saw at least 6 major updates come out for it. In that same time frame for the XBox 360, I saw only one major update. That alone shows how bad things were.


As far as the iPad 2 vs the iPad (3rd Gen), the rule is very simple. You have a dual core CPU that runs at the same speed on both platforms. You write your game against that. You then provide two sets of Graphic Assets. Such as ghost.png and [email protected]. When an API call is made to load this graphic, iOS reports which version of the Asset should be loaded automatically and then control is returned to the code. The developer didn't have to make a specific request. iOS took care of everything automatically. In fact the developer, at present, CAN NOT even directly address a pixel in the iPad (3rd Gen) because the coordinate system is still based on the iPad (1st Gen) of 1024x768. Apple did this so that ALL applications can run on any version of the device. The only current limiting factor for any iOS device is the version of iOS that the device runs under. And that is simply because some API calls don't exist in 3.x that runs on the older iPod Touches and iPhone 1st and 2nd gens.
 

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[QUOTE="zphone]" With the iPad the competition would seem to have 'better' hardware with more CPUs and GPUs. But if anything the reality would indicate that either developers are not taking advantage of it or cannot because the system is so poorly implemented as a whole.[/QUOTE]

and to go back to the original Post - people used to the PC/Intel world do not always appreciate that a different chip and OS might not need the XYZHUBBAHUBBA graphics or CooZowie RAM to do the same job as what they are used to with 'bigger' RAM, or the latest Quintuple-double-turbo chip.

Goes back to the time when PC makers stuck a 5p red light and a Turbo sticker on the front of the beige box and raked in the technopunters money. You don't use the specs, you use the system.
 
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Daylife

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ipadetheridge said:
It is not until i purchase the new ipad that i find*out that though it is perfect for my needs,*its far behind in specs.This is typical of Apple to be under spec'ed considering the Macbook Pro is underwelming in every hardware dimention. I was not expecting it to be the same for ipad. At the end of the day i am happy with the ipad on the weight of cons vs pros. I was under the impression that Apple will see a fall in sales and rep for thier lack in specs in both Macs and ipads. With quality andriod tablets coming out with real quadcore graphics and much more RAM, apple will have to up the game. Apple needs to stop charging such high prices for such a low spec'ed machine. For $500 i saw much justice in my ipad purchase, same for itouch. As for MAC, its very underwelming if you look deep under the hood compared to quality PC's of same price.

what are the main future impressions of ipad 3? maybe better utilizing of the graphics engine because i see no real differ compared to the ipad 2 to make me jump my pants. my hopes to far up?

No other monitor has the resolution that the new iPad has, 1 Gig of RAM, quad graphics, dual CPU.... Best Apps in the world.... Smoothest OS. What more do you want? A flying unicorn? Lmao
 

zphone

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Skull One said:
Well I have personally developed for both the Xbox 360 and PS3 as part of my "continuing education" in software development. ...

Wow, great over the top explanation there Skull!
It's been a while since my developer days but I still like to keep up. it's nice when I can actually learn something from a thread like this. :)
 

AQ_OC

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No other monitor has the resolution that the new iPad has, 1 Gig of RAM, quad graphics, dual CPU.... Best Apps in the world.... Smoothest OS. What more do you want? A flying unicorn? Lmao

Yeah, I'll take one of those! :)
 

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