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Starting to lose interest in iPad 2.

DaveSt

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There is an opinion by an expert that the other manufacturers will never be competitive with the iPad. Apple has too much in-house control of the process. It keeps everything coordinated and focused. The other manufacturers depend on outside vendors for the software, product designs, and accessories. For example, Apple used the ARM processor, which they own. The others buy the ARM, Intel, or other processors. Apple gets the best, first and without markup. Apple owns the iOS, which means they control what features, when they come out, and can make the OS work more efficiently with their processor. The others have to wait for MS and Google to make changes to a generic OS, and then modify which features they are using. His argument has merit. It doesn't mean that others won't match the iPad's pricing, but that for the same money, you get a lesser product. So those who are into Android may have to pay more for the privilege.

That is an interesting analysis, but one could argue that almost the exact same scenario (minus ownership of all of the components) has already been tried with Apple's line of computers with only marginal success. Apple has complete control over the hardware, OS and software on the Mac platform and they are pretty much a bit player in that industry. With portable devices, and tablets in particular, the difference is that Apple has been first to market with a viable product. It will be interesting to see if anything can slow that momentum. I think it will be hard personally, but in the end Apple might end up being their own worst enemy.
 

Thphilli

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There is an opinion by an expert that the other manufacturers will never be competitive with the iPad. Apple has too much in-house control of the process. It keeps everything coordinated and focused. The other manufacturers depend on outside vendors for the software, product designs, and accessories. For example, Apple used the ARM processor, which they own. The others buy the ARM, Intel, or other processors. Apple gets the best, first and without markup. Apple owns the iOS, which means they control what features, when they come out, and can make the OS work more efficiently with their processor. The others have to wait for MS and Google to make changes to a generic OS, and then modify which features they are using. His argument has merit. It doesn't mean that others won't match the iPad's pricing, but that for the same money, you get a lesser product. So those who are into Android may have to pay more for the privilege.

That would be a valid point if Samsung didn't manufacture the A4 processor for Apple. According to you, Samsung phones running Android should have a GIGANTIC advantage, since Samsung not only designs and manufactures the Hummingbird Cortex A8 processors which are IDENTICAL to the A4 the iPad uses, but Samsung also manufactures the Super AMOLED screens and the NAND flash memory.

Of course Apple can make their OS work more efficiently with their processor. They only make 1 phone a year, it better be pretty optimized. I don't know how many recent Android phones you have handled, but they are pretty damn optimized as well. I know my phone does things that the iPad can't, and they have near identical hardware.

And define lesser product??? The Xoom hits the iPads price point and it destroys it both with regards to hardware and the fact that the OS was designed from the ground up to be a tablet OS. Of course the iPad is a year old, so it was never supposed to compete against the Xoom. I just don't know how you can make that statement with a straight face.
 
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tzimisce

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What are you talking about? Every single thing that you said could also have been said about the iPhone and the 200 Android phones that have been released.

No, you cannot. The iPod is different from the iPhone in that it came into a fairly nascent MP3 market yet ended up captuing most of the market share, which is analogous to the iPad in the tablet market - both devices have the first-mover advantage in their respective markets.

Whereas, the iPhone was a late arrival entering a smartphone market already dominated by the likes of Nokia, Samsung, RIM and LG. Apple's performance in the smartphone market cannot be used to draw this sort of inference for its tablets, because its entry conditions were different.
 

Superbike81

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But the iPhone came before Android phones, that's the point.

When the iPod came out, the other offerings on the market weren't that great and weren't marketed well. When the iPhone came out, it was competing against smart phones that were not user friendly, slow, non-touch screen, and generally just not very good. The iPhone was the first truly user-friendly smartphone that actually made people want to get one.

This same story applies to the iPad, there have been other tablets available for a long time, but they weren't well marketed or well executed. The iPad brought it to the mainstream, just like the iPhone did. Google saw the market for people who wanted a smartphone but for whatever reason didn't want the iPhone (or didn't want to use AT&T) and that turned out to be a VERY large market. Android phones are now outselling iPhones (or very very close depending which report you read). In the beginning Android phones were slow and unreliable, but they QUICKLY became very very good alternatives to the iPhone, and started a HUGE sales jump over this last year or so.

The same market exists in this case, people who want a tablet but don't want the iPad. Same thing is happening too, there have been alternative Android tablets on the market for about a year now, but they haven't really hit the mark or built hype like the new Honeycomb tablets have. There is still a big market of people who dont want an iPad but do want a tablet. With all of the parallels, it's safe to make a solid educated guess that Android tablets will catch up with the iPad.
 

Seadog

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That would be a valid point if Samsung didn't manufacture the A4 processor for Apple. According to you, Samsung phones running Android should have a GIGANTIC advantage, since Samsung not only designs and manufactures the Hummingbird Cortex A8 processors which are IDENTICAL to the A4 the iPad uses, but Samsung also manufactures the Super AMOLED screens and the NAND flash memory.

And define lesser product??? The Xoom hits the iPads price point and it destroys it both with regards to hardware and the fact that the OS was designed from the ground up to be a tablet OS. Of course the iPad is a year old, so it was never supposed to compete against the Xoom. I just don't know how you can make that statement with a straight face.

Samsung may make components, but they are not a software company. They have to rely on someone else for that, then make changes to suit the appliction. They are not innovators, and lack the ability to create markets. Plus, since Apple owns the ARM processors, any copies have to be licensed, which means that it cost Samsung more to produce it than Apple pays for their models. Why do you think there is so many patent battles going on? If you have the patent, it costs your competitors money to license. And most of the components Samsung makes, have patents that someone is paying for rights. That is where Apple has advantages. Apple is not supporting USB 3. possible reason is that Apple is introducing a new standard that is better on the upcoming MacBooks. If so, Apple or Intel gain a lot of licensing money if it becomes the new basic format connector. Take a look at the number of software and hardware standards that Apple owns.

The Xoom does not match the iPad pricing. It does not have an entry level device at $499, and the base 3G iPad is only $629, a few bucks more than the wifi only Xoom. As destroying the iPad, spoken like a true Android fanboy. Android does not destroy iOS, just offers a couple of features not offered on iOS. And those are features not necessarily desired by most, in current form. On paper, the Xoom looks to be competent tablet, and it may develop a strong following. That is competition. But to think that Apple does not have answers to many of the features on the Xoom, is folly. One of the big issues in tablets is processor power. They can increase the processor to match a laptop, but then you have to add $XXX to the price for the higher end processor, and reduce the battery life to compensate for the added demand.
 

Thphilli

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The Xoom does not match the iPad pricing. It does not have an entry level device at $499, and the base 3G iPad is only $629, a few bucks more than the wifi only Xoom. As destroying the iPad, spoken like a true Android fanboy. Android does not destroy iOS, just offers a couple of features not offered on iOS. And those are features not necessarily desired by most, in current form. On paper, the Xoom looks to be competent tablet, and it may develop a strong following. That is competition. But to think that Apple does not have answers to many of the features on the Xoom, is folly. One of the big issues in tablets is processor power. They can increase the processor to match a laptop, but then you have to add $XXX to the price for the higher end processor, and reduce the battery life to compensate for the added demand.

The Xoom does not have a $500 tablet at launch. Give it a month and there will be Xoom's selling for less than the iPad. There is a big rumor that Costco will be selling the $800 Xoom for $700 at launch, which would place it below the cost of a comparable iPad. Point being, Android tablets go on sale, Ipads do not.

And yes, the Xoom destroys the iPad in functionality. You can deny it all you want or call me a "fanboy", but the fact remains. Of course, the iPad was never supposed to compete against a tablet a year newer. Also, increasing processor power does not reduce battery life. The dual core and eventually Quad core processors increase battery life.

Finally, Apple CANNOT have answers to several features on the Xoom. Sure they will introduce facetime to the iPad2 to compete with video chat on the Xoom. They wont be adding widgets. They wont be adding flash. They wont be adding HDMI out with full 1080P out. They wont be increasing the resolution. They wont be changing the screen to 16:10. They wont be adding customizations to iOS. Sure, you can downplay all of these things until Apple DOES introduce them and then they will be magical and revolutionary, but that makes you look silly.
 

Seadog

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Every so-called feature you mention is not going to be on the iPad for a reason. And I know of few users that would call them features. The Xoom is not going to have any better resolution than the iPad, and 1080p.....you're kidding, right? The only feature that would benefit the iPad 2 most is to have a better process to hook it up to a projector for business use. The iPad is a consumer device and it is not a geek toy. You want all the bells and whistles, get a laptop. And you definitely are without a clue if you think a quad-core device is not going to use more power. A lot more.
 

Superbike81

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Multi-core processors are more power efficient than single cores.

It will do 1080p output through HDMI.

Got any other misinformation you would like to spread?
 

Thphilli

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Every so-called feature you mention is not going to be on the iPad for a reason. And I know of few users that would call them features. The Xoom is not going to have any better resolution than the iPad, and 1080p.....you're kidding, right? The only feature that would benefit the iPad 2 most is to have a better process to hook it up to a projector for business use. The iPad is a consumer device and it is not a geek toy. You want all the bells and whistles, get a laptop. And you definitely are without a clue if you think a quad-core device is not going to use more power. A lot more.

They are not "so called features", they are features. And yes the Xoom has a better resolution than the iPad. And yes the Xoom can do all of those things I said it can. Its not that big of a deal. You shouldn't be getting defensive about it. The Xoom SHOULD crush the iPad with regards to specs, because the iPad is not its competition. Now if the iPad2 doesn't step up with some new features, THEN you should start being defensive.
 

jtrosky

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I am really looking forward to Android maturing. While I love my iPad, I do see how much better it could be if Apple would loosen their grip a little. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to connect USB drives to your iPad? Or even change the "new mail" sound? My point is that Apple locks down their devices so much that it starts to interfere with productivity. I don't believe that Android will have those type of issues. I shouldn't have to jailbreak my iPad in order for me to change my new mail sounds (just as an exmaple).

I shouldn't have to jailbreak my device to make the lock screen useful. I shouldn't have to be forced to upgrade the iOS version on my device. I SHOULD be able to run any version of iOS I'd like!

I think you get the point - all of this will be available to android users WITHOUT jailbreaking.

Just the fact that we are discussing Android vs. iOS says something - the shift has begun! While I'm not ready to swtich to an Android device YET, I think I will be willing to (and will) soon enough. Just wait and see...

And please don't tell me that Apple IS loosening their grip - if anything, they are tightening it! Lets look at some recent items... They first tried to stop jailbreakers from using iBooks. Then they came up with this 30% fee for everything sold through them. Folks, they are NOT loosening their grip - at all. And it's going to hurt them in the long run.
 

Seadog

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Multi core processors are only more efficient power users than single core processors of the same speed rating, with the proper power management system. However, nobody is going to put a quad core into a tablet without making it a lot faster than the competition. What would be the purpose of a 1.5 Ghz quad core instead of a cheaper 1.5Ghz single core? And no matter how you look at it, a quad core runs hotter than a single core. That translate into various issues.

Supporting Flash is not what I would consider a feature. It is like saying that being able to use Google apps is a feature. Just like most of the other things mentioned are camera based items. I am sure the iPad 2 will introduce a camera, but it will never be a high end unit. I am sure the Xoom will beat the iPad for camera features, but who would need a camera facing out on a tablet? Its like buying a car with a tv satellite dish installed. Interestng, but not very useful.
 

DaveSt

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Multi core processors are only more efficient power users than single core processors of the same speed rating, with the proper power management system.

That is only valid if you are comparing processors in the same family however. My Quad core i5 has a significantly lower total power draw than my single core AMD XP2800 does. That should be expected because the i5 is from a much newer family of processors. If tablets are going to be using quad-core processors they aren't going to be built on the same family as the single core models. It remains to be seen what the power usage of future multi-core processors will be. Nobody can say right now that these multi-core units will be better or worse when it comes to power consumption because they aren't yet in use.
 

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