gentlefury
iPF Noob
it's basically a squished version of my car.
Cars!
- Thread starter Matth3w
- Start date
it's basically a squished version of my car.
Love the Lotus, I almost bought one after my Corvette but the guy sold it.
For a couple of years, a guy using the same parking garage for work daily drove an orange Exige year-round. That is a hardcore enthusiast. I clambered in and out of one once, and I won't be folding my 6'2" frame into another. 
I guess even he tired of it, the guy drives an e90 M3 now.
I guess even he tired of it, the guy drives an e90 M3 now.GeeWillikers
iPF Noob
And he would be right if the only thing you measure cars by is raw performance per dollar. As a performance bargain, the vette can't be beat. It just isn't my personal favorite in that price segment.
Seriously, the seats in a cobalt are just as nice as those in the ZR1. It's sad that GM can make a world class performer that lags the competition when it comes to interior quality.
If it means I have to pay a few more dollars to have a decent interior with my performance, I don't mind that at all.
Like I said before, nothing wrong with vetoes if that's what you're into. I'm not.
Superbike81
iPF Noob
Which is why I would be willing to spend more money on a 911 Turbo. The Corvette might be slightly faster, but the 911 has the whole package. If I was going for all out performance and nothing else, for the money I would build a GTM Supercar from Factory Five.
All due respect to Jay, but that sort of crap is the problem. He's got some old school hardcore iron in his collection and the interiors are better. I owned a 1966 Rolls-Royce and you read anything about the Silver Shadow launch in the 60s and Rolls-Royce's chief targets in terms of quality and finish were Cadillac and Lincoln. That attitude wasn't just in the luxury markets - we were the guys to beat, once upon a time.
US car makers will give you all sorts of reasons to buy - patriotism, price, environmentalism, economy. Just once, can't they build something and say "It's the better car"? No excuses, no rationalizations, no "well, you're not a real car entusiast" bs.
Porsche's 911 and Boxster interiors aren't the lap of luxury by any stretch, and my BMW M Coupe is spartan and minimalist, but both are good quality with nice materials and decent ergonomics and my Z4 was much cheaper than a Corvette. There's no reason Chevy couldn't make the Corvette's interior as good.
My $11,000 Smart Fortwo had plastic body panels, rubber floor mats and cloth seats - why did it have nicer fit and finish than the $30,000 Solstice GXP I traded it in for? I love the car, but I had nicer plastics on my Big Wheel. We need to stop defending such manufacturing and demand US car makers step up.
henry2
iPF Noob
what i love about the smart car it the fact it fits me perfectly ..i not into the whole high dollar car thing or my car better is better than you car thing.. to me a car is a tool for use as it need ..if the tool fits you then use the tool if not find a tool that fits you.. same way as with pistol or rifle or shotguns find what works for you and use it ..
Like you said, to each his own. But when I buy something like a Vette, I couldn't give a rat's ass what the interior looked like. The reason the interior is cheap is because they try to save money to make it more affordable over all. And I'll take that any day of the week.
You can't show me a car with that performance that is brand new for just over a 100k. Look at what cars the ZR1 always get's put up against - major exotic cars. Yeah, they have nicer interiors....but the Vette dollar per HP is a better car for the money.
Just one man's opinion. I don't care about interiors, or stereos, or anything. I care about performance. The exhaust is better than the radio, looking out the window is better than eying up the cockpit.
You can't show me a car with that performance that is brand new for just over a 100k. Look at what cars the ZR1 always get's put up against - major exotic cars. Yeah, they have nicer interiors....but the Vette dollar per HP is a better car for the money.
Just one man's opinion. I don't care about interiors, or stereos, or anything. I care about performance. The exhaust is better than the radio, looking out the window is better than eying up the cockpit.
Superbike81
iPF Noob
Actually, not to sound like a JDM fanboy, but the Nissan GT-R is significantly cheaper than the ZR1, has a little nicer interior, and runs nearly identical lap times at the Nurburgring. Also your average driver will be much faster in the GT-R than they will the Z06/ZR1. With all the electronic aids, AWD, twin clutch transmission, etc, etc, the GT-R will beat the ZR1 with most drivers. It takes a true professional to really drive the Corvette to 95% of it's limits, it takes much less skill to drive the GT-R to the same level.
We aren't all Schumacher, so I'll take a car that's cheaper and easier to drive, which IMO makes the GT-R a much better car than the ZR1. Some can argue the GT-R isn't reliable with transmission problems, but most of those problems were first year jitters and were still rare, now it's all been ironed out and they are working very well.
Hey, if that's how you roll, forget the Corvette and get an Ariel Atom 300. None of those frills you don't care about and will beat any Corvette variant like a redheaded stepchild in front of Kmart during a blue-light special. It will run you about six grand.
It's already hot at 11 a.m. as we pull our 2009 Nissan GT-R into the visitor's parking lot at GM's proving grounds in Arizona. The Japanese supercar looks like a spaceship next to the aging, 1960s-era brick buildings that front the massive desert test facility on the outskirts of Phoenix.
Although the few GM employees who see the GT-R barely pay it any attention, we suspect they know why it's here. Somewhere deep inside this test facility there's a 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 getting prepped for a comparison test, and now the competition has arrived.
We make a few calls and sign a few release forms before a Cyber Gray ZR1 emerges from the main gate and pulls up next to the GT-R. The driver gets out, hands us the keys and gives a friendly warning, "Go fast carefully."
From here on out, it's the King Kong of Corvettes versus the Godzilla of Japan. We'll drive both cars more than 300 miles back to Los Angeles before putting them on a dyno, running our customary round of instrumented tests and wrapping it all up with hot laps on the road course at Streets of Willow.
Burnouts at 75 mph
We're barely out of Phoenix before the 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 lays down the gauntlet, or more accurately, the stripes. That's right, drop the ZR1 into 3rd gear, nail the throttle and it will light up the back tires at 75 mph before launching you into triple digits.
This will never happen in the all-wheel-drive 2009 Nissan GT-R. Can't do it in a Ferrari Enzo, Lamborghini Murciélago or Porsche 911 GT2 either. Yes, the ZR1 is a truly sick automobile.
After a dozen or so high-speed smokies, we settle into a slightly more relaxed pace on the road west, where the ZR1 proves itself a surprisingly comfortable road car. The Chevy's adjustable suspension soaks up the kind of small bumps that make the GT-R annoyingly jumpy on the highway. Changes in the pavement don't generate nearly as much tire roar as the Nissan produces, either. Tall gearing is another plus for the ZR1, as it cruises at highway speeds with the tachometer needle hovering lazily around two grand.
So far, the ZR1 is mighty comfortable and massively powerful, but there are problems, too. The steering column shudders so much that we actually think there might be a flat tire at one point (a faulty tire-pressure warning sensor isn't helping), while the driver seat is a shapeless blob of leather and foam better suited to watching 12 straight hours of Saturday college football than a 200-mph supercar.
We also notice that the steering wheel appears to be the same unit used in the Cobalt. What, the suede-wrapped wheel used in the $70K Cadillac CTS-V is too expensive? It seems hard to believe given our Corvette's as-tested price of $118,520. Then again, this price includes the truly tasteless chrome wheels, a $2,000 option. Here's hoping for a chrome-stripping desert sandstorm on the way home.
Comfort Mode
Having driven the 2009 Nissan GT-R out to Arizona, we're already all too familiar with the GT-R's road manners. Its adjustable suspension has a Comfort mode, but it merely cracks your teeth into finer pieces than the standard setting. We also notice that truck ruts in the pavement will send the GT-R sailing into the median if you're not paying attention, while concrete highways produce so much tire noise that it sounds like we're riding inside a cement mixer.
That said, smooth stretches of asphalt make the GT-R feel more like a private jet than an automobile. The tire roar disappears, replaced by the faint whine of the twin turbos and a hint of wind noise. The seats are well contoured and firmly bolstered, while the meaty rim of the steering wheel feels substantial in our hands.
The rest of the GT-R's interior is laid out logically and it's solidly built using high-quality materials. Our test car is a Premium model with the optional iPod hookup and floor mats that pegs the price at $80,770. It's not a luxurious cabin, but nothing in it feels cheap, either.
Rating the Power
Once back in Los Angeles, we head straight for the Harman Motive dyno shop to see just how much power these two heavyweights are putting to the ground. Their ultramodern test cell is one of the most accurate setups we've used, so the numbers should be solid and repeatable.
First up is the Nissan GT-R. Its twin-turbo 3.8-liter V6 is rated from the factory at 480 horsepower and 430 pound-feet of torque. All this power is sent through a dual-clutch six-speed transaxle to all four wheels in varying degrees of torque split, depending on traction.
After several very consistent pulls, the GT-R generates 406 hp at 6,000 rpm and 399 lb-ft of torque at 3,800 rpm. The power curves are a little bumpy as the output fluctuates slightly, but they're impressive otherwise.
Next up is the 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1. With a Roots-type blower feeding the 6.2-liter V8, this engine is rated at 638 hp and 604 lb-ft of torque. It, too, sends its power through a six-speed transaxle, but it all goes only to the 20-inch rear wheels.
Like the GT-R, the ZR1's engine pulls very consistently over several runs. The final numbers are 505 hp at 6,200 rpm and 494 lb-ft at 4,200 rpm and the power curves trace perfectly smooth arcs. No bumps, no dips, nothing.
You might expect the difference between the two cars' results to be greater than the 99 hp we observed. Although this outcome suggests that one manufacturer is being a little less forthright about its numbers than the other, our resident engineers suspect it has more to do with how the two companies dial in the intercoolers during dyno testing.
Straight-Line Horsepower
The next day we head to the test track to run the numbers. The GT-R opened a lot of eyes when it ran 11-second quarter-mile times earlier this year, so our expectations are even higher for the more powerful ZR1.
Launching the 2009 Nissan GT-R is a no-brainer thanks to its electronic launch control system. Set the switches to their appropriate positions, hold the brake, let the engine speed come up and let it rip. After a few consistent runs, our best time from zero to 60 mph is 3.8 seconds (3.5 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip). The quarter-mile goes by in 11.8 seconds at 118.6 mph. These are mighty respectable numbers for an $80K street car, and more important they're numbers that are easily repeatable.
With the 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1, it's a whole different story. This Corvette might have huge 335/25R20 tires in back, but since they can't even maintain grip when you put your foot down at highway speeds, you can probably imagine what happens when we try to nail it from a standstill.
We try every method possible to get the car out of the hole quickly — slipping the clutch, modulating the throttle and various combinations of both. The result is a best 0-60-mph time of 3.8 seconds (3.5 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip) and a quarter-mile time of 11.5 seconds at 128.3 mph.
The acceleration numbers of the Nissan GT-R and the Corvette ZR1 might look close, but the ZR1's trap speed says it all, because it's pulling away fast at the end of the run. An impromptu drag race between the two cars shows that although the GT-R can keep up with the Corvette up to around 100 mph, it's all over from there on out.
Well Turned
There's more to attaining supercar status than quick quarter-mile times, so the slalom, braking and skid pad tests are next. With its sophisticated all-wheel-drive system, the GT-R should have an advantage here, but the ZR1 has some pretty high-tech hardware of its own.
A set of carbon-ceramic brake rotors are included as one of the Corvette's most notable upgrades, and they're no joke. They provide enough bite to haul the ZR1 down from 60 mph to a stop in just 96 feet, an amazingly short distance matched only by the $192,000 Porsche 911 GT2.
Through the slalom cones the ZR1 shocks again, with an average speed of 74.7 mph. Not only is this fractionally faster than the all-wheel-drive GT-R's 74 mph, it smokes the GT2's 71.6 mph by a long shot and leaves the last Corvette Z06's 69.2 mph feeling a bit slow.
The ZR1's number on the skid pad is no less impressive, as the sticky Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires hold on long enough to generate 1.06g.
Despite the Corvette's world-beating numbers, we don't lose sight of the GT-R's still impressive stats. Not only does the 3,918-pound Nissan post nearly the same slalom speed as the 3,366-pound ZR1, the GT-R stops from 60 mph in 106 feet and posts a 0.93g on the skid pad. On a normal day against normal cars, these numbers are good. But next to the ZR1, they suddenly look a little soft.
The Final Test
Since driving in a straight line, a circle or through a bunch of orange cones only has limited appeal, the final test is held on the Streets of Willow, one of the road courses at Willow Springs International Raceway in Rosamond, California. It's a fairly tight, 1.8-mile course, but there are two 100-mph straights that let both cars open it up a little.
Our test driver hops in the GT-R, quickly gets up to speed and lays down some solid laps right out of the gate, the quickest clocking in at 1:25.09. He then moves to the Corvette, which takes a little more time to sort out. The lap times drop quickly, though, and the ZR1 finally posts a fastest lap of 1:23.87. Once again, the ZR1 is quicker than the GT-R, but the raw numbers don't tell the whole story because the two cars are completely different animals around the course.
With the 2009 Nissan GT-R, it's a simple point-and-shoot exercise. The car feels steady, sure-footed and drifts into predictable understeer at the limit. Its seats provide solid support and the steering is direct and responsive. It doesn't have the flickable feel of the lighter Corvette, but its rock-solid chassis inspires the confidence to push it harder. There's very little brake fade and the grip from the Bridgestone Potenza RE070s is considerable. If your driving skills slot anywhere below that of an SCCA road-racing champion, you'll probably go faster in the GT-R.
On the flip side, the Corvette is a sweat-inducing workout that requires good footwork, quick hands and serious concentration. We alternate between jamming our knees into the dash to hold ourselves in place and sawing at the wheel to get the car pointed in the right direction. Don't get us wrong — it's worth the effort, but it is an effort.
The adjustable suspension actually proves too jittery in Sport mode, so our best lap times are made in the more pliable "Touring" setting, which helps keep the chassis settled over some of the rougher sections of the track. There are a few missed shifts, but most of us concede that the ZR1's shifter is probably the best Corvette setup available. And the brakes are nearly flawless, with a good initial bite plus stopping power that never fades, even after repeated hot laps.
The Corvette Wears the Crown
This is far from a perfect Corvette, but the ZR1 is pretty damn close. If you can afford the $100 grand to buy it, then you can probably pop for a pair of Recaro seats and a decent set of wheels, too. There's little room for improvement after that.
Any more horsepower and the tires would never stop smoking. Bigger brakes probably won't even fit the 20-inch wheels. The tires already rub the front wheel wells during fast driving at the track, so there's no more room for extra rubber either. Why bother anyway? The 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 is already one of the world's quickest, fastest and most capable production cars as it is.
So where does that leave the 2009 Nissan GT-R? It'll be just fine, we suspect. It delivers similar performance in a package that's far less intimidating and infinitely more usable. Sure, the ZR1 has the capability on the track, but exploiting that performance on the street is another matter. This Corvette will blow anything out of the water in a straight line, but on a twisty mountain road all that power is difficult to harness.
And don't forget, Nissan has more in store for the GT-R when it comes to performance with the upcoming V-Spec model.
But that's next year. The ZR1 is here now, and there's nothing you can buy that will touch it. Nothing.
Superbike81
iPF Noob
Like I said, the ZR1 is more capable, in the hands of expert drivers, but the rest of us who enjoy driving hard but aren't exactly trained professionals will be faster in the GT-R.
Besides, 75mph burnouts? I've never heard that quoted as a GOOD thing before, that just shows that the ZR1 really does have traction problems and needs to be in the hands of an expert racing driver to get the best out of it.
Oh and not to mention, the $35k price difference.
Besides, 75mph burnouts? I've never heard that quoted as a GOOD thing before, that just shows that the ZR1 really does have traction problems and needs to be in the hands of an expert racing driver to get the best out of it.
Oh and not to mention, the $35k price difference.
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Superbike81
iPF Noob
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