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Modern War Combat Details

Discussion in 'Modern War Forum' started by LucidMostly, Feb 1, 2012.

  1. LucidMostly
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    LucidMostly iPF Noob

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    I have searched everywhere and have found no current thread discussing the details of attacking or raiding. I hope to start a discussion here about what people have discovered in their attacks or defenses.

    PLEASE NO ALLY NUMBERS... There are PLENTY of threads for that!!!

    From what I have gathered, raiding and attacking are quite similar as far as the actual calculations goes to determine the winner or loser, but have gotten no response from FUNZIO about explaining it in great detail so this is just an opinion thus far. If anyone has gotten an official response, I would love to hear it!

    I won't go into the number of troops brought in by allies, I am only concerned with the end attack and defense numbers used in the actual raid/attack/defense (which I know is based on the number of allies, usually more is better but arguments can be made to the converse).

    Raiding:
    You choose a building to raid in your enemy's base. The higher the level of the building, the more you get. The raided money does not come out of the enemy's cash-on-hand, merely a measure of the building and level of building. Also, the greater output from the building, the more you get. For example, a level 5 Munitions Stockpile will net a raider more than a level 5 Command Center because the Munitions Stockpile nets more cash each time it is collected. Thus raiding a Supply Depot will almost always be a waste of stamina (and conversely you should always be looking out for high level Stockpiles, Ore Mines, Oil Rigs, etc.) You can raid a building (if it hasn't already been "depleted") three times before you can't raid it anymore. The last raid will net 2x the value of the first two raids. The owner has to repair the building before it can be raided again. Correct me if I'm wrong up to this point.
    Now, your attack is measured against the enemy's defense + any enemy's defense building which protects the building being raided. It is not 100% given that you will win if your attack is higher, but the higher your attack against their combined defense, the greater chance you have of winning the raid. You can lose troops during the raid, as can the enemy. You get a little experience and valor in addition to any funds for a successful raid. I have seen people level up almost solely by raiding (usually people who spend $$ on gold and thus have indestructible troops and a decent attack/defense).

    Attacking:
    Very similar to raiding, except there is no "defense building" bonus. Also, you can only obtain un-protected money (usually 10% of it) if you win an attack, in addition to experience but no valor. Is the "strong against _____ " more of a role in attacking than in raiding? Also, what does that exactly "do": boost their attack/defense against their rival unit type? If so, by how much?

    *Edit*
    Detailing the numbers a bit more, I "think" that if your attack = enemy defense, you have 50% chance to win (if you have no "strong against ___ " troops). If you do have those troops, then your attack is different than what is showed. Similarly, your defense is altered based on the makeup of your enemy's troops. This is my base guess but have no real clue if that is true, just experience-based. I've lost some battles where my attack was greater than their defense, and vice-versa. I know the numbers only because if you lose on a defense you can choose "revenge" and view the enemy's stats, and if you were attacking, you can always raid first to see the enemy's stats and troop makeup. However, once your attack starts to get higher, your % of winning increases as well, but think it might be capped somewhere (95%?). Thus you never have 100% chance to win, or lose.
    *end edit*

    My own odd experience:
    I usually keep a decent spread of unit types strong against all others (infantry/ground/air/sea) to provide a good defense in general, but I was attacked by someone with 20% less attack than my defense, and oddly they still won. Were they just really lucky? I hit "revenge" to see their inventory, and noticed that they had bought troops via gold and I wonder if those troops are somehow inherently favored or provide yet another bonus. An attack that much less than a defense doesn't make sense to win, unless it was a fluke (always have a 1-10% chance of winning, etc) or they were hacking. I've always thought, regardless of the method purchased (gold, valor, cash), the troops still only provide certain numbers to the overall combat (with perhaps the unknown bonus of "strong against ____" ).

    So that's what I have gathered so far about attacking, defending and defense buildings. There are new buildings that help boost those numbers, but they are pretty self-explanatory and don't feel that they need explained here (they add to your total stats, so it should be clear what bonus they provide if you see your enemy's stats).

    Feel free to fix any mistakes, I hope to hear any clarification of points on which I am misinformed (or to hear from FUNZIO the exact number crunching).

    Thanks!
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
  2. SOTEXSURFER
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    SOTEXSURFER iPF Novice

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    I actually read your whole post and I feel that what you have written is basically what I have found to be true. I'm not sure how it works either and can only guess. That being said, I feel that your summarization is fairly accurate. I am inclined to think that Funzio definitely rewards players who purchase gold with an considerable advantage, which I think sucks. Granted I feel that Funzio has the right to try and make money but I feel that their expectations of what a person should spend are extremely greedy. Several single items cost almost $50.00. I think that's complete insanity. If I spent that much money for one stupid unit I would expect not to lose any battles.
  3. jjey
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    jjey iPF Noob

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    Another factor to consider are the skill points that the player chooses to divvy up between Attack, Defense, Energy, and Stamina. If a player chose to pour most of their skill points into Defense, then I would suspect it would provide a proportional (whatever the heck that proportional math may add up to) benefit against another rival's attack/raid who had a similar attack/defense stat, but with lower skill set numbers than your own. The same being true if the one chose the path of pouring their skill points into Attack.

    My Defense skill set (as opposed to my defense stat/number) is twice as high as my Attack - still a double digit but I'd like to hit at least 100 eventually, and I have often fended off attacks by opponents having a 10-15% higher attack stat than my defense stat. Any higher than that, and I'm on the losing end. Raids seem to be more random, but I'm a 50-50 ratio from opponents that are just slightly higher in stat numbers than my own (raids). Come to think of it, I wonder if any of those defense buildings are having any effect at all. Hmmm...

    Hope that made sense. And I agree with Sotex' assessment re: the gold purchase advantage. Since I'm cheap and enjoy free entertainment, I'll keep working the numbers to see what works - heck, that's pretty much a game in itself!
  4. Cowser
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    Cowser iPF Novice

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    Attack Strategy

    I generally agree with everything you've written. I do believe the defensive buildings play a roll in the game, but are clearly limited to just helping ward off raiders. I find it amusing to see people place them around the borders of their base like they will hold someone out They have clearly defined ranges and it would seem clear you can overlap those to further help defend the money making buildings.

    My real question here, that I cannot seem to locate an answer for is what real role the allies play. I now have over 1,000 (lvl 53) but not clear this is really the way to go. You are only allowed to use 5 allies per level and each brings it's 4 best troops. My issue is this:
    Who picks the 265 allies that will help me out? Is it random? Do they automatically pick the higher levels? Does it go by who has the best troops but not necc the highest level? This could be a major issue. You may be better off dropping all the lower level allies and just keeping a more manable number that are high level and have better troops This would ensure they are providing quality assistance and not just useless quantity. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

    My other strategy on this game, is that I break down purchase value into an equation. If you divide the total offense and defense provided by the cost, you end up with a ratio and clearly some purchases provide far more bang than others. I have not purchased any gold units, but it is clear that you would throw money away buying certain items that are for sale. This applies to the regular units too, but I often have plenty of in game money, so ultimatly that is not a major issue as you can make up for any mistakes in a day or two if your earnings are high enough.
  5. circus_act
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    circus_act iPF Noob

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    Attack Question

    I have some basic questions for the group. When attacking a rival do you bring a set number of units to battle? Are these units split between air/ground/sea or just the top ranking units? How are the Alliance Attack and Alliance Defense numbers calculated?
  6. Logan68
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    Logan68 iPF Novice

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    What I have learned (Currently Level 62):

    1) The strength of your Allies does NOT matter!
    All they do is allow you to bring more of YOUR OWN TROOPS to fight.
    2) This is the math for troop strength used during Raids and Attacks:
    Your level * 5 = The max Allies you can "bring with you" to fight
    Max Allies for your level * 4 = The max number of units you can bring to the fight

    Example: You are level 10 and have 89 Allies.
    10 * 5 = 50 max Allies. 50 * 4 = 200 max units
    Remeber these are 200 of your units (Check the Battle Results and you will only see your units used)

    3) Don't load up on the least expensive units if you are over the max units you can bring to a fight. As a rule of thumb you want to always bring the max allowed but you are better off bringing units with higher scores. Once you reach the max the lowest score units stay home.

    4) You can succesfully raid rivals slightly below your attack score but to win Attacks you need a 25% cushion or better. (My current stats: Attacks won - 3050 lost - 150. Raids won -2275 lost 10)

    5) I have seen little deterrance from defensive buildings....maybe a waste of money.


    Add me if you like: 324 711 544

    -Logan
  7. Logan68
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    Logan68 iPF Novice

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    One more thing. You can play this game without spending a penny. I certainly dont't plan on spending $...i'll let you know how that works at the higher levels. I have seen one profile for someone at Level 200 and over 30,000 attack and defense scores, can't imagine how the got there w/o spending a lot of $
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  8. drofn10zt
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    drofn10zt iPF Noob

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    tested logan's equation out.. didnt quite work out for me. I should have brought all my units but still was about 10% short. I had more allies and should have a factor bigger than my total units. Also it didnt look like my opponent brought in all of theirs so who knows how the skill points effect this.
  9. techjock
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    techjock iPF Noob

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    Max on Level?

    Does anyone know if there is a max on a level? I have building at level 8 and from the store I can only see unit requirements for level 10. Just wondering.
  10. alberto326
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    alberto326 iPF Noob

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    I agree with Logan. Our observations are quite similar. You send your own troops ONLY. That means you can't really borrow troops from allies. I have checked this with the battle results. But the number of troops you can send is dependent on the size of your alliance. I also observed that defense units have no effect against my troops when I am raiding a building. I used to avoid raiding buildings near strong defense units (or near more than one defense unit). But with the absence of a better prospect, I was sometimes forced to raid such heavily protected building and to my surprise I was winning.

    161 322 005
  11. Logan68
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    Logan68 iPF Novice

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    I have determined that some units do not count towards your attack scores and do not go with you during raids/attacks. The units with 0 attack don't go, same with some other units...for instance I have never seen a medic listed in the battle results. So you need to adjust your calculations to take more troops, but make sure they have offensive power.
  12. Logan68
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    Logan68 iPF Novice

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    Another thought, the higher you go the less benificial raids are. In order to increase your attack & defense scores you need to buy more expensive units, thus the units you lose during the battle may cost more than you gain. Begining to switch strategies now to build and upgrade money buildings, need more cash to buy units. (Currently level 68)
  13. LucidMostly
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    LucidMostly iPF Noob

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    Upon reading these replies and further testing, I would like to add a few things to the discussion.

    Defense buildings add to your overall alliance defense score. This helps when defending against an attack. When defending a raid, however, only defensive buildings covering the building in question contribute. I was surprised to see my defense score increase after building one, but double checked before and after the next time I built one. It actually adds to yur score as soon as you place it, not after it's done being built. Not sure if it is in "play" yet but it does change the defense number.

    Similarly for your income per hour, any money building placed instantly increases that number (even though you can't actually obtain it until it's done).

    Raiding and attacking are always useful, regardless of level. It is true that as you level, you are purchasing more costly troops to maintain good attack and defense numbers, but you gain valor along the way. Essentially you are exchanging cash for valor which usually is a drastic increase in troop value. I have seen people use attack strategies to gain valor very effectively. Use cash to buy disposable but effective attack troops (eagle fighter for example) and use the valor for better troops. Once you're in the 200k per hour you can afford it.

    Buy all money buildings. I currently use a calculation to determine which building to upgrade based on the daily increase in income, PER UPGRADE DURATION. This means you divide the increase (a day's worth) by the amount of time it takes to upgrade the building. Forget how much it costs, the good ones will always cost more, but you are injecting cash into your base significantly faster this way. I'd love to hear comments about how you all decide which money building to upgrade. I haven't found a more logical way than this yet. It takes longer to get your money back but is truly increasing your income per hour as fast as possible. FYI, I use realistic income per day rather than displayed. So my supply depot is still at level 5 because I don't intend on being online every 5 minutes of every hour to truly get what its increase is displaying. Upgrading the supply will increase your displayed income per hr pretty fast but you really aren't getting it. I upgrade oil rigs, refineries, mines, etc. since you truly get 100 % of the increase.
  14. General Gordon
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    General Gordon iPF Noob

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    Does anyone know how I can be attacked by someone and lose nearly half my bank balance? I had around 2million and lost nearly 1 million!
  15. Thenoobsearcher
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    Thenoobsearcher iPF Novice

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    Please tell me how can people lose with over 1000 attack more than the enemy defense?
    I have 10000 attack and I still lose to 8000 defense. Also how does attack/defense increase work?
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2012
  16. LucidMostly
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    LucidMostly iPF Noob

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    In response to Gordon:

    If your vault is not big enough to protect all of your money, then the excess is vulnerable to being taken from an attacker. For example, if your vault can only protect 1 million but you have 3 million, then 2 of the 3 can be taken during attacks.

    A side thought about allies and how many you should have:

    Don't accept more allied than you can really support with non-trash troops. Getting 100 allies when you have basic troops only leaves you open to attacks from players that are growing slow and buying decent troops (still free though) to support a higher alliance number. I'm sure others can expand on this thought.

    Basically it's not the allies number you should worry about. It's what your attack and defense are for each level you are at. Try and get the highest attack and defense for your current number of allies before accepting new ones. Accepting 50 allies in a day means you bring 200 more troops into battle. Chances are they will be worse than you are already bringing into battle, effectively watering down your overall force, even though your actual attack and defense seem to be increasing.
  17. Logan68
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    Logan68 iPF Novice

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    Lucid - Good stuff, I agree with your thoughts about money buildings...income per hour versus upgrade time/cost is a smart way to go. I am also very analytical about the game (currently have an excel spreadsheet running that I use to pick what buildings to raid). I also agree with your thoughts about valor units....they are the easiest way to increase your attack/defense scores.

    Just a few points below Level 75....still cost free. The supply box bonuses were pretty cool!
  18. SOTEXSURFER
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    SOTEXSURFER iPF Novice

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    Man, finally a MW thread worth reading. Lots of interesting ideas on here. I have to admit that I sort of lack the motivation to put forth the amount of effort and thought some of you have but I appreciate the insight. My original MW account (141 199 430) is on my iPhone4 and I was VERY bummed when I recently got the New iPad (3) and could not access my existing MW account. Needless to say I reluctantly started new one. I spend too much time f'ing with my current account. Eventually I relented and have begun to work my new account on the iPad as well (134 854 107).

    It is very interesting starting a new base now that I have gained a lot of experience (I am currently level 79 on my original base). So my new base is progressing quickly. I have decided to spend a lot less time going on missions and more time attacking. My focus is going to be on buying units and money buildings.

    It was interesting to learn that I should purchase expensive units. I hadn't really thought of that before but I had definitely recognized the need to buy units. I have been tremendously frustrated by my inability to win attacks, especially at the higher levels. So I started to buy a lot of less expensive units to increase my army. But obviously I have to purchase the more expensive units as well because they are individually more powerful when they are brought to a battle.

    Also expansion is important because you have to have room to build money buildings. Just a word on defense buildings: I think they are effective, locally against raids, but like anything else, you can't rely solely on them. I have made some building purchase mistakes but eventually you learn which buildings to buy and which to avoid. Then again, once you buy a pair of good ROI buildings you've options become more limited so eventually you just buy whatever is available.

    ALWAYS be increasing your VAULT. I learned that the hard way and have had to spend weeks increasing my vault to keep from losing all the revenue my base was producing. Losing millions to attackers when you are struggling to save for an oil platform is upsetting.

    I finally did break down, give in and I have bought gold. I do not like the idea of competing with people who have just thrown a bunch of money at they bases but eventually I just figured there were things I wanted and have enough effort invested in the game to justify spending some real money. The only things I have bought with gold are a few minor gold only units, 2 geothermal plants and an emp cannon and 2 solar arrays. I also used some gold to buy a couple of shipping containers (with mystery contents) and have not been disappointed by what I got for 140 gold.

    Like I said, I am still struggling to find enemies that I feel comfortable attacking. Check my current situation below:

    Alliance# - 752
    # Units - 2191
    Attack - 10703
    Defense - 12557

    Typically, I just look for foes that have lower numbers in every category. The higher level you are the more difficult this gets. But even then I still lose the occasional attack, which sucks ASS! I am going to try to start buying more expensive units and see how that starts to work. Also, I am not going to try and level up as quickly. I have spent a lot of energy leveling up and I think I should be more patient.

    Coorect me if I am wrong: So given my current situation, in battle, I am supported by 395 allies (my current level, 79, x 5) so clearly I have far more than I need - but is this a bad thing?. Those 395 allies allow me to bring 1580 units to battle (395 x 4 units per ally)?
  19. KillaCam
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    KillaCam iPF Noob

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    I keep losing. Not sure why, my alliance attack and defense are always at least 400 points higher than those whom I attack however I always lose (well about 80% of the time). I'm level 62 with 197 allies. 902 units. AA of 4326 and AD of 5897. I make sure my unit numbers are more than or comparable to my enemy. What is going on??? I don't pay for anything and I don't have alot of lower level troops. I get the higher level troops
  20. mnstr4lfe
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    mnstr4lfe iPF Noob

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    I have noticed that if you have more alliance members then you can bring in more units. Therefore, you are going to want a lot of allies and high ranked units.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2012

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