Flash: Why so important to the Ipad?

[Dr.Gee]

There are a lot of flash based sites I frequent as well as video I wish to watch.
I just wish there were better work arounds. It is a trifle arduous having to open new app just to watch a short video clip.

 

[bdegrande]

I think that Flash is not on the iPad because it is a pig in terms of performance and battery life. This has been true not only on every mobile platform on which it has been tried, but even on Macs, your machine's fan hums like a jet engine while running Flash.

Anyway, there are a number of ways of running Flash on an iPad.

Frash has been mentioned, but it requires a jailbreak and doesn't work well at all yet.

Cloud Browse, which is free in the App Store, will let you access Flash sites. It is basically running Firefox on a server, which works really well because the heavy lifting is not done on the iPad, so your performance doesn't suffer. There are times when you will have trouble getting through to the server, though.

My favorite method is to run a VNC program to my home Mac and run a web browser from there. I use Remote Tap but there are many options including some free ones.

 

[DaveSt]

Frankly for all Jobs' failings I think this a distorted interpretation of what we know. Rogatsby's reasoning is far more persuasive than this over simplistic argument. Loads of other ways they could have cut corners to save money on the iPad.......

It has nothing to do with saving money on the Ipad, it has everything to do with making money from the Ipad as well as all other iOS devices. The initial device sale is only a small part of the revenue stream when it comes to these devices. Control over the advertising space is where the real money stands to be made. Adobe wants to keep that control, Apple doesn't want them to have it. It may be a simplistic argument and I'm sure I don't know even a small percentage of the wranglings between Apple and Adobe, but this is a business after all.

I agree that for the most part Flash is crap and in the end we probably won't miss it. I only have experience with Flash and one lower powered device (my netbook) and it seems to do fine there. I imagine if both sides were truly committed there could be a good Flash implementation on iOS devices. We all know that isn't going to happen whatever the reason is.

 

[bdegrande]

Frankly for all Jobs' failings I think this a distorted interpretation of what we know. Rogatsby's reasoning is far more persuasive than this over simplistic argument. Loads of other ways they could have cut corners to save money on the iPad.......

It has nothing to do with saving money on the Ipad, it has everything to do with making money from the Ipad as well as all other iOS devices. The initial device sale is only a small part of the revenue stream when it comes to these devices. Control over the advertising space is where the real money stands to be made. Adobe wants to keep that control, Apple doesn't want them to have it. It may be a simplistic argument and I'm sure I don't know even a small percentage of the wranglings between Apple and Adobe, but this is a business after all.

I agree that for the most part Flash is crap and in the end we probably won't miss it. I only have experience with Flash and one lower powered device (my netbook) and it seems to do fine there. I imagine if both sides were truly committed there could be a good Flash implementation on iOS devices. We all know that isn't going to happen whatever the reason is.

If controlling the ad market was Apple's motivation, they would have continued insisting that everyone use iAds instead of allowing Google AdWords as they did recently.

 

[Seadog]

People do not understand the whole reasoning behind Apple's methodology. They are not out to dominate any part of the computer/cell phone industry. They are out to create a product that appeal to enough people to keep their profits at a decent level. Microsoft dominates the computer market, but they made less than Apple. Apple uses innovation and high quality to be the first on the market with new concepts. And they do it so well that they are highly looked to for the next big thing.

Apple does not feel that flash is compatible with the processor in the iPad, so rather than allow people to rant about how it doesn't work well, they kept it out. Eventually other tablets will be on the market. If you pay enough, you can get a processor that works well with Flash, or get a cheap unit that doesn't do anything well. In any case, the iPad will continue on its merry way, doing things the Apple way.

 

[Technician99]

Apple fanboys does not equal intelligent debate. Go to do a search of non-Apple sites you get the true motivation; Apple is the worst type of big brother organization in the World. They sell media Adobe offers media but Apple gets no cut.

 

[epb]

People do not understand the whole reasoning behind Apple's methodology. They are not out to dominate any part of the computer/cell phone industry. They are out to create a product that appeal to enough people to keep their profits at a decent level. Microsoft dominates the computer market, but they made less than Apple. Apple uses innovation and high quality to be the first on the market with new concepts. And they do it so well that they are highly looked to for the next big thing.

Maybe I read too much Dashiell Hammett as a kid, but I don't understand how so many people think a multi-billion dollar company is so full of sweetness and light. Apple makes Microsoft look like a Utopian ideal of freedom and enlightenment and yet everyone has this glassy-eyed smile that says they don't know what Soylent Green is made from.

 

[kc2ped]

Flash is only important because so much of the web uses it.
I hate Flash. As someone who has always had low bandwidth net connections it made using the Web even slower. You always had to wait for the obligatory flash to load before you could browse the site.
Now that we have a device that can't use Flash there are many sites, and not just porn sites, that you can not view because they use flash navigation and the developers have not revised the site architecture to allow iPad users a path to a site map or other text based navigation system.
Once everyone gets onboard with HTML 5 things will go a little smoother. Until then there will be groans.

 

[joephoto]

Ads can be in the form of HTML, java, html5, flash, etc. It doesn't matter. So the "all flash is ads" argument is seriously ill informed. You better believe you'll get your ads no matter what technology is being pushed at the moment.

Also while we're so thoughtfully grouping ipad users, where do the anti-flash lemmings get off asking people to list flash sites for their approval? Seriously? Such arrogance shouldn't be placated. If people find flash useful that's their business. If people don't use it, nothing wrong with that either, but they certainly don't have any special right to play gatekeeper for another persons internet experience.

People fail to realize that flash partly undermines the cogs that Apple has in place in both revenue stream and product flow system. Their system depends on the app store/itunes and the revenue stream it generates for both apple, their music partners and the developers. A very closed system. But that is apple's right - it's their system. However don't pretend that apple is the good guy here and are simply trying to protect your user experience. Apple does love you and want to provide you with a great experience but they want you to keep that wallet spread open and the dollars flowing into their cash registers. Apple and adobe are, at the simplest level, trying to protect and expand their assets. The basic argument that it's all about the money is more true than most here seem to want to admit.

 

[felicat]

I can survive without it, although it would make life easier ...
Just as being able to upload docs from an usb key or move pdf docs (such as a boarding card after a web check in) to an usb key and print them from another PC (like an hotel's one ...)

No big deal, just a question of living better ...

 

[thesoundsmith]

Oh and as a web developer who uses JW player (excellent flash movie player), I just heard they have an HTML 5 version in beta testing. Examples on their support site and they work great on the iPad. We'll be moving our clients to this version as soon as it is full release. (and no I don't work for Longtail, just a starving web developer who likes their product).

I love the JW Player, it's all over my site. But there's no simple way to convert all my .flv files to .mp4s without losing yet another generation. If I could keep the same fidelity, I'd be all over it, but I hate letting the control-freak win.
I suppose eventually I'll have to convert, as it is, I send viewers to my YouTube versions...

 

[DaveSt]

If controlling the ad market was Apple's motivation, they would have continued insisting that everyone use iAds instead of allowing Google AdWords as they did recently.

Fair point. Of course, it could also have something to do with the fact that Apple is spending $1M+ per month using AdWords. I doubt Apple wants to block their own advertisements from the bulk of their user base! Google is also much less intrusive on the OS than Adobe which has to help.

It is also important to note that Apple only relaxed their third-party advertisement policies once the FTC started to get interested in Apple's anti-competitive policies.

 

[pallentx]

People do not understand the whole reasoning behind Apple's methodology. They are not out to dominate any part of the computer/cell phone industry. They are out to create a product that appeal to enough people to keep their profits at a decent level. Microsoft dominates the computer market, but they made less than Apple. Apple uses innovation and high quality to be the first on the market with new concepts. And they do it so well that they are highly looked to for the next big thing.

Apple does not feel that flash is compatible with the processor in the iPad, so rather than allow people to rant about how it doesn't work well, they kept it out. Eventually other tablets will be on the market. If you pay enough, you can get a processor that works well with Flash, or get a cheap unit that doesn't do anything well. In any case, the iPad will continue on its merry way, doing things the Apple way.

haha, they absolutely want to dominate all of the mobile sector. Why else would the go so far as to block apps that run native code, but were developed using Adobe's tools. (they have since backed off on that finally). This is about Apple playing corporate hardball and nothing else. And there is nothing unique to apple about using "innovation and high quality" - I think every company strives for that.

Apple wants it both ways, they want to claim the iPad gives you "the whole Internet in your hands" when the fact is that the iPad's processor is too slow to handle some of that content. Rather than just acknowledge that some content requires more power than the iPad can support, they go on a campaign to destroy the company making that content possible. All the Apple minions fall in line reciting the company line. Its weird how flash has been all over the internet for 10 years. Its had its fans and detractors, but it wasnt something that must be removed from the Internet until it caused problems for apple.

For me this is about my distaste for Apples practices as a company - they are just yet another massive corporation with a marketing machine designed to manipulate customer opinion. I will buy their products or not based on the merits of the product - in this case, I still think iPad is a great value. Just dont tell me to pretend this issue is about something that its not.

 

[Tinman]

Also while we're so thoughtfully grouping ipad users, where do the anti-flash lemmings get off asking people to list flash sites for their approval?

The personal attack. First tool of the intellectually bankrupt debater. Well done. Bravo!

 

[Prasius]

Also while we're so thoughtfully grouping ipad users, where do the anti-flash lemmings get off asking people to list flash sites for their approval?

Because..

A) you require a justifiable requirement for anything to support an argument for it, otherwise you're just a whining little female dog.

And more importantly...

B) most of the sites listed in a response to the question are absolute crap, and reinforce my sense of superiority over the vast majority of the population. The point is, show me a site I find useful which is predominately flash offering something I cannot get elsewhere, and I will happily post a thread on the forum titled "I'M WRONG! FLASH IS WONDERFUL!".