Civil War Battles - Virginia & Pennsylvania

[giradman]

If the South had had an industrial capacity to rival the North, the war could very well have ended differently. They couldn't out produce the North and had to contract with companies in Europe for much of what they needed, including commerce raiders such as the CSS Alabama.

Hi Scifan.. - isn't that bar graft astounding as to the differences between the North & South at the start of the Civil War - my immediate reaction is NO WAY!

There have been SO many books, chapters, analyses, etc. on the topic of the South winning the war that one might devote a decade of study and of course not resolve the issue. April of this year was the 150th anniversary of the end to the Civil War and yet more literature emerged - below is the beginning paragraph of an article in the New York Times that might be of interest. Gary Gallagher in his superb 48-lecture series on the war (shown below from the Teaching Company) devotes a number of lectures to the 'economics' of the two combatants and also on the 'chances' of the South being successful.

The South, a rural, slave-holding economy w/ cotton being its main financial strength faced such a determined and stronger enemy, especially after the victory at Antietam in September of 1862 and Lincoln's release of the Emancipation Proclamation - the war was now definitely for not only preserving the Union, but also for the abolition of slavery. The South's hopes that England & France might intervene (which likely was not a great possibility from the start) were completely shattered. The South's main economic 'ace in the hole' regarding buying power on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean was cotton, and the northern blockade and the capture of major port cities made that much less likely. The southern navy was impressive when considering the few excellent Confederate commerce raiders that roamed the seas, as you mention above - several were quite successful but made little difference - an excellent introductory book is shown below for those interested; but there are many other books on this topic.

The 'Lost Cause' authors after the war (whether the generals or others) have taken the Southern successes, failures, and potential of winning the war in all directions, so there are MANY opinions and I'll not add more. BUT, one question that has always intrigued me regards Robert E. Lee - he was considered by Winfield Scott (kind of the George Marshall of his time & head of the US Army), as the best soldier in the US military (Lee was a colonel); thus, Lincoln offered Lee the head of the Union forces which he refused after Virginia left the Union - WHAT if Lee had accepted? My personal opinion (which is probably not worth much) is that the war would have been short, Grant would not have become the personage he achieved (nor later a President), and Robert E. Lee might have been elected President and lived in the White House - but hey just ate dinner and have had a few glasses of wine - Dave

By March 1865, it was obvious to all but the most die-hard Confederates that the South was going to lose the war. Whether that loss was inevitable is an unanswerable question, but considering various “what if” scenarios has long been a popular exercise among historians, novelists and Civil War buffs.

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[giradman]

I found this site about the discovery and salvage of artifacts from the CSS Alabama. You might be interested. http://mua.apps.uri.edu/alabama/alamethproject.html

Thanks for the link - yes, the battle off the coast of France near Cherbourg in mid-1864 putting an end to the commercial raiding of the most successful Confederate vessel - it's been a few years since I read the book below, but a more specific recommendation vs. the other general naval history posted earlier. Seems that your really know your naval history! Dave
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[scifan57]

It's amazing that the war lasted as long as it did, considering the difference in resources available to both sides. The better military leadership of the South in the early stages of the war undoubtedly prolonged the war by several years.

 

[giradman]

It's amazing that the war lasted as long as it did, considering the difference in resources available to both sides. The better military leadership of the South in the early stages of the war undoubtedly prolonged the war by several years.

Yep, I agree - Lincoln fired McClellan after the tactical victory @ Antietam in late 1862 when Little Mac might have pursued Bobby Lee and crushed his army - an opportunity possibly lost - and after Gettysburg in mid-1863, Meade might have gone after Lee more successfully - Lincoln did not fire him, however, the war could have ended after either of those battles.

BUT, Lee was such a revered soldier and strategist from old Virginia aristocracy - the pre-Grant Union leaders seemed to fear him and he was beloved by his soldiers even after the BAD decision on the third day of the Gettysburg battle. Dave

 

[giradman]

Richmond - Hollywood Cemetery

On this trip to Richmond (just 2 nights), we had an afternoon to explore and have not been through the Hollywood Cemetery in a number of years - description quoted below (Source) - the cemetery is quite hilly w/ meandering roads - many tour options are available, driven or walking - we bought a map at the entrance (just a dollar) and drove our car.

Most of the pics below are my own - the map shows the location of the grounds on the James River (w/ some beautiful vistas); entrance to the cemetery; many Civil War burials, including George Pickett & J.E.B. Stuart, and many Confederate soldiers; also there are three presidents - Jefferson Davis, John Tyler, & James Monroe. Virginia was the birthplace of 8 Presidents of the USA (4 were among the first 5 Presidents w/ John Adams from Massachusetts seeking in at position 2 - ). Dave

Hollywood Cemetery, a national treasure located in Richmond, Va., is open to the public from 8am - 5pm, year-round. Whether you're enjoying a walk through the winding paths, visiting the grave of a loved one or participating in an organized tour, this spectacular outdoor museum has plenty of stories to tell. Much more than a cemetery, Hollywood is a living story in stone, iron and landscape. Designed in 1847 by noted architect John Notman of Philadelphia, Hollywood has been a fully-operational cemetery since the 19th century. It serves as the final resting place for two American presidents, six Virginia governors, two Supreme Court justices, twenty-two Confederate generals and thousands of Confederate soldiers. In addition, Hollywood accommodates many deceased loved ones from the Richmond community and beyond.

The natural and architectural beauty of Hollywood Cemetery sets it apart from the grid-like layout of many cemeteries today. Known as a "garden cemetery", Hollywood's paths wind through the 135 acres of valleys, hills and stately trees. The skillful design, faithful stewardship and nature's beauty have made this cemetery one of the most historic and beautiful cemeteries in the United States.

Today, Hollywood Cemetery ranks as the second most-visited cemetery in the nation, right behind Arlington National Cemetery. The stories and beauty of Hollywood continue to bring visitors from all over the world. To this day, Hollywood Cemetery still provides numerous interment options, allowing you to reserve your place in history among presidents, Civil War generals and many other famous personalities.

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[scifan57]

Richmond - Hollywood Cemetery

On this trip to Richmond (just 2 nights), we had an afternoon to explore and have not been through the Hollywood Cemetery in a number of years - description quoted below (Source) - the cemetery is quite hilly w/ meandering roads - many tour options are available, driven or walking - we bought a map at the entrance (just a dollar) and drove our car.

Most of the pics below are my own - the map shows the location of the grounds on the James River (w/ some beautiful vistas); entrance to the cemetery; many Civil War burials, including George Pickett & J.E.B. Stuart, and many Confederate soldiers; also there are three presidents - Jefferson Davis, John Tyler, & James Monroe. Virginia was the birthplace of 8 Presidents of the USA (4 were among the first 5 Presidents w/ John Adams from Massachusetts seeking in at position 2 - ). Dave


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Thanks for the post on Hollywood Cemetery, it's certainly very interesting and is one of the things I'd like to see if I visit Richmond.

Are the two other cemeteries connected with Hollywood Cemetery?

 

[giradman]

Thanks for the post on Hollywood Cemetery, it's certainly very interesting and is one of the things I'd like to see if I visit Richmond.

Are the two other cemeteries connected with Hollywood Cemetery?

Well, we've never been in the other two cemeteries but below is a satellite map of the three properties and zooming down, I did not see any connecting roads - don't know if there might be walls between the Hollywood Cemetery and the adjacent one, but for practical purposes in a car, another access road would have to be used. Dave
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[The OB]

Great pictures and text, thanks Dave Interesting that Tyler was President for almost 72 years. I guess there were no limitations on terms in office or their number for one individual in those days.
Andrew


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[giradman]

Great pictures and text, thanks Dave Interesting that Tyler was President for almost 72 years. I guess there were no limitations on terms in office or their number for one individual in those days.
Andrew

Hi Andrew - thanks for your interest. Actually, before the US Constitution was put into effect in 1789 and George Washington became the first President, there was talk of making him the KING! Also, there was a lot of debate on what to call the head of the new Unitied States, including the term HIS MAJESTY! But....

John Tyler was President from 1841-1845; he was elected as the Vice President, but William Henry Harrison, who was born at the Berkeley Plantation on the James River (shown in one of my previous posts) died in office about a month after his inauguration in March 1841. Tyler was involved in many domestic issues, but I guess his main 'claim to fame' was residing over the annexation of Texas which entered the Union in 1845.

James Monroe was a two-term President, 1817-1825, and really the last of the 'Founding Fathers', i.e. the last president to have fought in the American Revolution (little more information quoted below - Source). Monroe had many important accomplishments during his tenure including: 1) Residing over the Missouri Compromise of 1820 which brought Missouri in as a slave state and Maine as a 'free' state, thus delaying the Civil War (other compromises were to follow until the politicians ran out of ideas, I guess); 2) Monroe Document (stating non-interference of European powers w/ the independent countries of the Americas); 3) Bought Florida from Spain; 4) Treaty w/ Great Britain to settle the northwest Pacific coast border (now the Western Canadian Provinces & the state of Washington); and 5) Establishment of Liberia on the west African coast - the capital Monrovia is named after him. Dave

In 1774, Monroe entered the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia. His education took place not only in the classroom but also throughout the town, which was the capital of colonial Virginia. It was an exciting time to be in Williamsburg. Royal Governor Dunmore had fled the capital, fearing that the colonists were a danger to him and his family; after he left, Monroe and some of his fellow classmates helped loot the arsenal at the Governor's Palace. They escaped with 200 muskets and 300 swords, which they donated to the Virginia militia. By the winter of 1776, in the wake of Lexington and Concord, Monroe had joined the Virginia infantry. He became an officer in the Continental Army and joined General George Washington's army in New York.

During the Revolution, Monroe fought with distinction in several important battles, including Trenton, Monmouth, Brandywine, and Germantown. He was severely hurt at the Battle of Trenton, suffering a near fatal wound to his shoulder as he led a charge against enemy cannon. After recuperating, he became a staff officer for General William Alexander. By the end of his service with the Continental Army, he had gained the rank of major....................

 

[giradman]

Virginia - Suggested Trip Encompassing Some Items Already Discussed

Well since Andrew spurred me on to add another post to this thread, for those who might be visiting Virginia, I can suggest another trip that would include some of the Civil War sites & towns already discussed, but also add some more important battlefields and include a visit west to Charlottesville and some of the President's homes - this could easily be done in 6-7 days.

See the first map below - this trip is a triangle of cities w/ Fredericksburg & Richmond at the base along the I-95 corridor, and Charlottesville at the apex, close to the I-64 entry into the beautiful & historic Shenandoah Valley and all of its attractions; the origins of the famous Skyline Drive and the Blue Ridge Parkway are in that gap near Waynesboro; circled on that map is an area that includes many National Military Parks shown on the second map, i.e. the Wilderness (two times), Chancellorsville, Spotsylvania, & Fredericksburg.

Charlottesville is a delight to visit - home of the University of Virginia (the original buildings designed by Thomas Jefferson) - numerous wineries, especially around Barboursville (blue arrow first map) and near the mountains. There are three Virginia-born President's houses in the vicinity - James Monroe's Ash Lawn (by far the most modest), James Madison's Montpellier (still under renovation - we need to make another visit to see the progress), and Thomas Jefferson's Monticello, the most famous and nearest the city. So, if you want some American history (particularly the Civil War), some delightful towns, wineries, and mountains, then highly recommended - add another 3-4 days and visit the sites & towns in the Shenandoah Valley (my favorite is Lexington). Dave
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[scifan57]

Thanks, Dave, for the interesting bonus post.

 

[giradman]

Thanks, Dave, for the interesting bonus post.

Thanks Scifan.. for your interest - thought that the extra post was worth mentioning - Dave

P.S. I'm amazed that this thread is approaching 3000 views but only a handful of others have posted responses, i.e. mainly Scifan... & Andrew - not complaining at all, but for those looking at this thread and interested in the topic, please add a post or more - I can go on forever w/ comments about where I live and about the Civil War for those interested and especially for those looking at my posts about traveling in the mid-Atlantic states.

 

[The OB]

Thanks to your great travelogues Dave, with that practical and useful data and maps, any future plans for someone like me and my missus (who consider ourselves travellers rather than run-of-the-mill tourists) to visit Virginia, the Carolinas etc. would be made that much easier and enjoyable. Certainly well beyond what our travel agents concentrate on here (its as if Los Angeles, New York, Las Vegas were the only places to go to in the States)
We're hoping to travel to USA in the not too distant future, and now you are giving us destinations to aim for which are much more imaginative and to our liking compared to those well-trodden tourist spots.
I've driven a lot on the right hand side in Europe so see no problem in enjoying a motoring holiday around the mid-Atlantic states. The info you are providing is being carefully stored away for that eventuality.
Andrew

 

[giradman]

Hi Andrew - thanks for the kind comments - but I'm as guilty as others when traveling to other countries - been to Europe at least 9 times (but has been a while) and mainly did the big cities, but will always try to get into the countryside either on a tour or in a rental car (had some scary moments years ago in the Lake Como area of northern Italy - ) - but I agree that coming to the USA and just visiting say NYC or Las Vegas (both of which I've been to many times) gives one a really skewed impression of the country - I'm sure the same is true in Australia if you send all of your time in say Sydney and Melbourne (although I would love to do that and have not - ) - Dave

 

[giradman]

Bennett Place - Sherman & Johnston Meet after Lee's Surrender

On the way home from Richmond coming down I-85, the Triangle Area is passed (i.e. Raleigh, Durham, & Chapel Hill); just off the highway is the Bennett Place, a North Carolina historic site (see map below) - after Robert E. Lee surrendered to U.S. Grant at Appomattox Court House; Generals William T. Sherman & Joseph E. Johnston met at a farm in Durham Station (story below - web source) on April 17 - this was also after Lincoln's assassination and the terms were somewhat confusing.

Johnston chased Sherman from Atlanta to Savannah, then to South Carolina (Charleston & Columbia), and finally into North Carolina - there were only several large scale battles in the Old North State (which contributed the most soldiers to the Confederacy), i.e. Fort Fischer leading to the capture of Wilmington and the Battle of Bentonville which pitted these armies against each other in southeastern North Carolina (fascinating place to visit - the plantation house was used as a hospital and the tour discusses mainly Civil War medicine) in March 1865 (second quote).

Durham has many other attractions - the home of Duke University (the Chapel is beautiful and the campus was modeled after Princeton but larger - another story!) and also the Duke Homestead (see third quote below) - Washington Duke wanted to buy Princeton University (an Ivy League school in New Jersey) only if it would be renamed to Duke University - not a deal, so he endowed his own university in Durham, now one of the great American schools and a major contender in regional sports, especially basketball. So just another bonus post on our return - Dave

P.S. Sherman died in early 1891 in New York City; Johnston died shortly after attending his funeral - "before dying of pneumonia in 1891, which was contracted at Sherman’s funeral for which he was a pallbearer" - in Johnston's chase of Sherman at the end of the war he was amazed at the organization of the Union Army - probably one of the best ever to exist in the 19th century according to many accounts.

On April 17, 1865, Gen. William Sherman met with Gen. Joseph Johnston to discuss terms of surrender for Johnston’s forces. They met at the home of James Bennett near what was then a rail stop, Durham Station. Once alone, Sherman handed Johnston a telegram that bore the news of Abraham Lincoln’s assassination.

Accounts differ on the Confederate general’s reaction. Sherman later said that Johnston broke out in large beads of sweat and expressed hope that the Union officer did not suspect the assassination plot to have been organized by the Confederate government. Johnston later recalled saying to Sherman that Lincoln’s death “was the greatest possible calamity to the South.”

Remarkably, Sherman managed to keep the news in the telegram from his own men. Only the telegraph officer knew of the information, and Sherman swore him to silence. Sherman had just returned from a meeting with Lincoln and General Ulysses S. Grant where the topic was the terms of peace.

With the news, Sherman offered Johnston what he thought was Lincoln’s terms for peace. Those terms, in the wake of the assassination, were deemed too generous and rejected. Sherman and Johnston would meet again on April 26 to complete the surrender process.

The Battle of Bentonville, fought March 19-21, 1865, was the last full-scale action of the Civil War in which a Confederate army was able to mount a tactical offensive. This major battle, the largest ever fought in North Carolina, was the only significant attempt to defeat the large Union army of Gen. William T. Sherman during its march through the Carolinas in the spring of 1865.

The patriarch of Duke Homestead was Washington Duke, an Orange County farmer whose chance discovery that Union troops were eagerly sampling local Bright Leaf tobacco led him to the canny decision to market this "golden weed." His vision--along with the soldiers' fond memories--helped Duke and others create a market for Durham-area tobacco products that eventually would transform North Carolina into the heart of a world-wide tobacco empire.

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