Google creates a big problem

Discussion in 'iPad General Discussions' started by Seadog, Apr 15, 2011.

  1. Seadog
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    Seadog Super Moderator Staff Member

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    It is being reported that Google in it's egotistical way has screwed things up big time. They announced their cloud based music and video store to challenge iTunes and steal a march on Apple. Without any agreement from the media companies, they made a bunch of claims. Tacked on the cloud storage plan of Amazon, which the media barons have frowned upon, and Google has stepped deep in its own mess. It has always amazed me how little people pay attention to the nuances of Apple's dealings with other fields. Steve Jobs has long rallied against the business as usual attitude. He spent years fighting against DRM, but he played the game until he finally made the barons understand the folly of the practice. Jobs knew that no company is so big that several companies with control over some aspect, cannot take it down. Both Google and Amazon have ticked off the record companies, and now they are saying that the talks between Google and the record companies are worse than when they started. Cloud music storage may take years to get settled and it is likely that Apple will be the one to set the standard.
  2. Rudinater
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    Rudinater iPad Fan

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    Screw cloud storage, I will always control my data and storage of it
  3. Thphilli
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    Thphilli iPad Enthusiast

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    I stopped reading at sentence number 2. When did they announce their music service? Where are you getting that its cloud based? Where are you seeing anything about a video store? Pretty much [CITATION NEEDED] on your entire post.

    [ame]http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=google+music#q=google+music&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbs=nws:1&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wn&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=c26af511472a054[/ame]


    Google is in talks with labels at the moment, according to certain people, and those are not going well, again according to "insiders". Never has Google even mentioned Google music. They never announced anything. They have demo'ed certain capabilities like a year ago. Certain leaked music apk's have been found with interesting features. Never have they announced anything, which really begs the question: How did they "screw things up big time"?

    Also, I have to LOL at your first sentence. "Google in it's egotistical way". You mean that they are fighting against the music labels who want to charge you MORE money for their product and not allow any cloud storage and limit the general usefulness of the Google Music service? How egotistical of them.

    If you are going to wildly speculate based on rumors and make things up, can you use these around your post:

    [wildspeculationbasedonrumorsandotherthingsimadeup]
    [/wildspeculationbasedonrumorsandotherthingsimadeup]
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2011
  4. Thphilli
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    Thphilli iPad Enthusiast

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    IDK where he is getting cloud storage from. The only RUMORS that I have seen have been the ability to stream your own music from your house to your phone, basically giving you access to your entire music collection without having it locally stored on your phone. There are also RUMORS of google starting a "Google Music" service where they sell you music.
  5. Seadog
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    Seadog Super Moderator Staff Member

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    This is one short excerpt and I read several more. Cloud based storage for music or video is not something the media companies want. Apple has been working on this for a long time and is not doing it because they know that they have to get the labels willingly on board. Google's approach is the same as they do everything. Haphazard and with an attitude. Amazon is much the same way. Read about the tactics Amazon uses to keep from having to charge tax for their sales. No matter how you feel about taxes, you have to admit that they are strong arming the states. Tactics include court challenges, pulling facilities in states that charge taxes, and cutting associates if a state starts charging taxes.

    I think the labels have too much clout and are a dying breed. However, they do represent the artists. I am very careful about my money. I will not spend my bucks for seeing a music group, nor a sporting event. I will pay a reasonable cost for music and videos. And when I buy something, I intend to play it on any media player I own. That is why, until Apple was instrumental in getting the labels to back off on DRM, all my purchases were made on CD or DVD. Now, I am willing to buy digital content from reputable vendors like Apple and Amazon.

    I do not see my ever using cloud storage, but those who do use it, should have the right to store their music on it. However, a hardline approach to the labels is not wise. They are already losing money, and telling them they must do it Google's way, or Amazon's way is just going to get their backs up and make them lock their heels in.
  6. Thphilli
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    Thphilli iPad Enthusiast

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    Highlighted some bits from what you quoted. All based on rumor and speculation. Google has NOT announced a music service. Google has NOT announced a video service. Google has NOT announced cloud storage capability. So basically the first post is invalid, as you were saying that they announced a service before any of the labels had signed on, which is completely untrue.

    Also, you are basing every one of your critiques of Google on third party speculation and rumors. You say they are doing it "Haphazard and with an attitude", when in reality you have no idea what they are doing or negotiating for. How can you say they are doing it haphazardly when you don't even know for sure WHAT they are doing as they haven't announced anything yet?
  7. Seadog
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    Seadog Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I know the dark side of the moon is not suited for life, but I have no actual knowledge. I quoted only one source. The fact s that Google was going to announce ll that, and the labels told them to pull the announcement because they had no agreement and would never have one if it was not pulled. Amazon is taking the attitude that this is none of the labels business, which could mean a lawsuite. Amazon is in a better position because the labels cannot afford to totally drop Amazon. The best they could do, would be to pull new releases until the lawsuit was settled. Apple has the intelligence to negotiate. The evidence is there that MobileMe is redesigned to add this, but they are waiting to make the formal announcement until they have the labels on board.
  8. Somerled
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    Seadog - Post some links to backup your claims is what I think they are wanting.

    In your above post you state "but I have no actual knowledge" and then followed up with "The fact is that Google."

    Stating you "don't know" and then calling out unsubstantiated "facts" is pretty much shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to debate.
  9. Seadog
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    Seadog Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The 'I have no actual knowledge' is about the dark side of the moon not being liveable.
    The issue about Google comes from reading a lot of bits and pieces, then coming to a conclusion based on a lifetime of experience with these types of situations. The facts are there, even if Google does not make them public. Apple is waiting for the negotiations to announce their cloud storage. Amazon is using the threat of litigation with their storage operation. Google has made no bones about what they are planning. And it may be a good thing when they do get it up and running. But my experience and interpretation of what is going on here, is that Google saw what Amazon was doing and was determined to do the same thing immediately. They were not in a position to do so, because they do not have any deals with the labels. They tried to bully the labels and the labels got ticked off. Now Google is worse off then they were to start with.

    Too often, one entity in a negotiation will take on the position that they are above the common rules of negotiation. When that happens, they almost always get a rude awakening.
  10. Somerled
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    Still not seeing and cited sources...
  11. Mountainbikermark
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    No links, no pictures, not real.
    They have pictures and other proof that the dark side of the moon doesn't sustain human life that you can link to as proof

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_does_moon_not_support_life_like_the_earth_does

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  12. danrivito
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    danrivito iPF Novice

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    Come on... Admit it... You have an Apple tattoo on your left butt cheek. Lol

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  13. Seadog
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    Seadog Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Not as much an Apple fan, as convinced that Google has started to act like jerks the past year. Pity there are those who cannot understand deductive reasoning. Or are too enamored with Google to see what they are doing.
  14. Thphilli
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    Thphilli iPad Enthusiast

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    How are they acting like jerks? And maybe link to some form of citation when you answer or if you answer. The FACT is that you began this thread saying that they had announced a service, then slowly have evolved into saying that they were GOING to announce the service. This entire thread is based on wild speculation on your behalf.

    But please state how Google is acting like jerks. I can only assume you are going to mention the Google music rumor where Google is trying to get as good a deal for their consumers as possible and Honeycomb where they didn't want to release an incomplete and rushed OS to the public. What jerks they are.
  15. Seadog
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    Seadog Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Google did let it out that they were working on music market, and I would hardly call the release of Honeycomb a complete OS. As for them trying to get a good deal for their customers, look who is into wild speculation. I try to put out references as a courtesy, but for those who have a sick love affair with Android, I might as well be speaking ill of Allah from the reaction I get. I can read the industry news and draw conclusions. If you are too blind or unwilling to follow, that is your issue. In this case, there are over a dozen different references of bits of the negotiation that when put together, come to a central premise.

    It is not that unusual for technology companies to act like jerks. If you look at the industry, it is hard to find one company that hasn't at one time or another. Including Microsoft (still king of jerks), Apple, Adobe, etc. Everyone knows that the record labels are jerks, as are most of the movie/TV studios. Over the past few years, Google decided that they would be more than a search engine. That is good. But they have been trying to steamroller into areas without a clear plan of implementation. Nor with the flexibility to refocus when others do not play by ther game plan.
  16. Karyyk
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    Still sounds like conjecture to me. Time will tell, but choosing to disagree with this hardly points to someone having a "sick love affair with Android." You mention "over a dozen" references that assisted your "central premise." Why haven't those been cited?
  17. Bob Maxey
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    Google's Cloud Music Service Launch Facing Delays - FoxBusiness.com

    Details of Google

    http://www.crn.com/news/cloud/22940...;jsessionid=HuparjCHZ8-MMYJrRMHrKQ**.ecappj01

    Google’s Cloud Music Player for Android Leaked—Take a Look - Techland - TIME.com

    Here are four reports about the (upcoming?) Google Cloud Music Service. If you Google the query, there is lots of talk and discussion about Google's Cloud Music Service. That said, nothing on Google's official site I can find says they are working on or considering such a service.

    So one can conclude it might be just wild speculation because there are links to stories that indicate it is not been announced by Google.

    I can forgive the OP for asking about GCMS because there are lots of reports and discussion. But it might not be true, too.

    Bob
  18. SweetPoison
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    This thread is very interesting! And respectful and civil. Let's keep it that way.;)
  19. Thphilli
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    Thphilli iPad Enthusiast

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    So we are like 20 posts into this thread and you STILL haven't explained why or what Google did that makes them jerks. It sounds like your initial premise was that Google had announced a music service without hammering out deals with the record labels beforehand, but I am pretty sure that I have shown that not to be the case.

    And I AM a lover of Android, some might call it sick I guess . . . I am not an irrational lover of Android. I don't think you will find a post from me saying something wildly irrational regarding either Android or iOS.

    This quote from you gets to the heart of the matter though:

    You haven't read industry news. You have read industry RUMORS and industry hearsay. So you are drawing conclusions on a very shaky foundation. Remember when Apple was going to be releasing the iPad2 as a 7 inch tablet?

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/187215/apple_tablet_will_have_7inch_oled_screen_expert_says.html

    http://www.businessinsider.com/7-inch-ipad-2010-8

    http://www.bgr.com/2009/12/23/apple-tablet-definitely-coming-in-7-size/

    There are DOZENS more articles all describing the great 7 inch tablet that Apple was launching.

    You have to understand that until someone actually has a product in hand and is able to either show it to you on video or through screenshots or pictures, it doesn't exist. Google Music may come exactly how these rumors and speculation describe it, or it could be completely different. Until Google announces something, its better off to act like it doesn't exist, because it doesn't.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2011
  20. HKWrite12
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    i don't know if this has been mentioned, but I find it extremely interesting how Google has managed to be like a Superpower between Android and Apple. They are attempting to develop stand up OS in compared to iOS, while acting as mail provider and Search engine for Apple products.

    I guess they have yet to learn their place.

    All in favor of google as a search engine ONLY, say i(Pad)!

    Sent from my iPad 2 using iPF

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