Apple hurting Adobe?

Discussion in 'iPad General Discussions' started by Seadog, Apr 9, 2010.

  1. Seadog
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    Seadog Super Moderator Staff Member

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    In a report about Adobe's SEC filing, under the worse case scenario, Adobe has admitted that Apple's refusal to deal with flash could hurt them badly. More and more customers are abandoning flash for other resources. With the the exclusion of the Adobe upcoming CS5 in any upcoming apps, Adobe is going to have to go back to the drawing board.:confused:
  2. Edlex
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    Edlex iPad Junkie

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    I'm sure they would like everyone on board but flash is just a part of what adobe does. Truth is they need to evolve just like everyone else in order to survive. They just have to move a bit faster in this arena or they will get left behind.
  3. Dorje
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    Dorje iPad Enthusiast

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    It's been pointed out back when the no-flash on iPad shot was fired. Adobe can easly adapt by taking it's content creation tools and turning them to export HTML5 clean and easy. If the tools aren't super expensive for what the offer Adobe will survive and may get a bit of a revival. But that's going to be their choice.

    They could also... you know, clean up the bloody MacOSX code for Flash and take away Apples primary public beef. If it corrected the coding issues Apple publicly objects to (and that mess with thier battery life projections), the Apple looks more the bully an gets harder consumer feedback to support it. Just a thought.

    Look how long it took Apple to create multi-tasking in a way they liked.
  4. brobar
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    brobar iPad Fan

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    Apple is blocking Adobe from allowing people to develop for the iPhone using FLASH/AS in CS5... I say Adobe should fire back and say well if you think our products don't run that well on Apple hardware then maybe we should just pull Apple support all together!

    I know it will never happen and it would be a shitty thing to do to Adobe customers who are also Mac people... but if Apple can FORCE Adobe out of development for the iDevices... why can't Adobe fire back??? It wouldn't hurt Apple a ton... however there are a lot of Mac users who swear by the Adobe line of products (Premiere, After Effects, Photoshop, Illustrator, etc...)

    I can get over not having FLASH support in Safari for the iDevices... even though that forces people to develop all of their sites TWICE until there is wide adopted support for HTML5 in all browsers. However I can't really get over the fact that Apple is blocking Adobe from allowing developers to develop in FLASH and export/transition code to Objective-C through the upcoming CS5! To me... that just seems like Apple trying to smack down Adobe in any way they can. What do they get out of that? Developers STILL have to pay for the Apple Developer License to release those apps to the app store so it isn't like it would be costing Apple any revenue. In fact... it would be bringing them more revenue through increased apps and sales and would be helping developers by allowing them to develop once (compile twice) for web apps / iDevice apps.

    Apple is really starting to irk me! Yes I'm excited that this may really push HTML5 to wide adoption faster than it would have! But blocking people from developing app-store apps in FLASH (that end up being objective-C apps in the end anyways) is just wrong (in my opinion)
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
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  5. mjeagent
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    mjeagent iPF Novice

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    CNN just put up an article on this...still no comment out of Apple - probably haven't stop smiling/laughing yet.
  6. Seadog
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    Seadog Super Moderator Staff Member

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    This is only a gloom and doom scenario and is extremist thinking. The fact is that flash is a dead horse and Adobe needs to stop beating it. Besides, they may be using this to take the heat off of what may be their biggest worry. Adobe is taking a lot of flack over the vulnerabilities in PDF format which, from what I have heard, is where about 80% of all attacks are being made on user systems. And don't get too sorry for Adobe. They use to make a lot of Mac software, and then when Apple was going through a bad patch, they pulled the plug. A lot of customers switched to PCs because they could not get Mac native Adobe products.
  7. CanonicalKoi
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    CanonicalKoi iPF Novice

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    This. Flash is a horse that should have been put down long ago were it not already dead. It's a resource-hogging, kludgy piece of crap that's long past it's sell-by date. Laptops, let alone the iPad are going smaller and thinner; if you want halfway decent battery life, Flash has got to go. Other than some online games like FarmVille and the few remaining Flash splash pages left in the wild (thankfully, an endangered species now), what do you need Flash for anymore?
  8. 4phun
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    4phun iPad Junkie

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    I agree with you for technical reasons. You see I know it is not possible to have a ten hour battery life in a lite weight hand held which also does Flash.

    Further more the issue of Apple banning code developed by an Adobe tool is not meant to hurt Adobe but to protect their new multitasking structure they have developed for the iPhone/iPad.

    If someone feels outrage over this it is a sign of foolishness instead of clear thinking. They can not have it both ways.

    If they do not value the freedom from a bag full of batteries and the constant need to recharge every few hours with an attached wire then they should move on and choose a non Apple product. No one is going to miss them among those who value what Apple has created with the iPad.
  9. brobar
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    brobar iPad Fan

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    Can you elaborate on this?

    How does disallowing another tool that will cross compile the source into the native objective-c needed for iDevice apps have ANYTHING to do with protecting multitasking??? I'm dying to know!!!
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2010
  10. IpadOne
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    IpadOne iPad Addict

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    I believe is the pure right of Apple to choose witch code source they accept or not …


    If we start like i will complain why MICROSOFT DON’T ALLOW XP TO RUN MAC SOFTWARE ??

    or why i can’t run Apple iphone app’s on Android based device ….

    Flash is old donkey and if that disappear i didn’t think we will miss it
  11. brobar
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    brobar iPad Fan

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    I think people don't quite understand... or don't care enough to understand. The code built in flash in CS5 that is put into the app store is NOT flash!!! They aren't disallowing flash code... they are disallowing objective-c code that just happened to originate in flash!

    That would be like Microsoft not allowing people to install software on their Windows machines that were converted from Java to C# using the Java2C converter in Eclipse! Microsoft would never do that because A) it is completely harmless and B) there is absolutely no reason to! I get it... Apple wants to play the bully now and flex some muscle since they and Adobe can't seem to work out their problems. That's fine... they have that right. But people trying to justify it by saying it is to "protect" the iDevice system & stability have absolutely no idea what they are talking about and/or are confusing flash in the browser with app store apps that just happened to be coded in the flash tool BEFORE being converted to objective-c!
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2010
  12. IpadOne
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    IpadOne iPad Addict

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    Frankly speaking this is none belong to out business, who care in witch language is coded the app’s you enjoy

    if tomolo Apple don’t provide good devices, or useless app’s all will turn to what that work

    How many software company didn’t convert their software in OSX ?? , now because iMobile become famous we listen complain from every corner

    Apple decide what they want for THEIR PRODUCTS until they provide what we need … it’s not more complicated than this …


    if the developer are not satisfied nobody force them to code for iTunes they can go to see the competitor and propose them their knowledge
  13. brobar
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    brobar iPad Fan

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    You hit the nail on the head... if the developers aren't happy with it they can/will look for another platform which is kinda sad. Don't get me wrong... I'm cheering for Apple here and want what is best for them (and the developers since I'm one myself). I just can't comprehend how Apple wins here though... there is so much possible revenue at stake here that Apple seems to be passing up for no perceivable reason. If there was a valid reason then I'd love to hear it but the only reason that carries any weight that people have thrown out there is Apple is only doing it "because they can" and if I were an Apple shareholder or on the board I wouldn't find that reason very justifiable when taking into consideration possible squandered opportunities at additional revenue.

    Let's make sure that we make and keep the distinction between flash in the browser and app store apps that were converted from flash/action script to objective-c!

    I understand completely the motive behind Apple not allowing flash in the browser. I get that from a monetary point of view as well as a battery life issue and a browser stability issue. But that isn't what I'm talking about. What I'm focusing on and questioning is what is Apple's motive and what do they GAIN by disallowing objective-c apps in the app store that were cross-compiled from flash? We all know that they CAN do it... but is there a reason for them to do it outside of "because they can"??? What do they gain from that? I've looked at it from every conceivable angle and I don't see a gain at all... only a loss!
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2010
  14. IpadOne
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    IpadOne iPad Addict

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    I understand you clearly, but i guess the shareholder know the real reason … Apple are like every company they want to make revenue and long term business

    Don’t you think if they can provide us the multi tasking early they will do ??
    they took time because they want provide the best user experience possible
    like the copy and paste, as Android didn’t have if i am not wrong ….

    they have surely a reason, but they are not YET forced to disclose it


    PS: i didn’t talk about you as developer , i talk about the one say he stop to develop for Apple
  15. 4phun
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    4phun iPad Junkie

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    Please note this quote " The primary reason for the change, say sources familiar with Apple's plans, is to support sophisticated new multitasking APIs in iPhone 4.0. The system will now be evaluating apps as they run in order to implement smart multitasking. It can't do this if apps are running within a runtime or are cross compiled with a foreign [insert Adobe's software tool] structure that doesn't behave identically to a native C/C++/Obj-C app.

    "[The operating system] can't swap out resources, it can't pause some threads while allowing others to run, it can't selectively notify, etc. Apple needs full access to a properly-compiled app to do the pull off the tricks they are with this new OS,"...unquote.


    That quote was from this link

    AppleInsider | Apple's prohibition of Flash-built apps in iPhone 4.0 related to multitasking

    Apple isn't out to screw Adobe, they just don't need the archaic crap that is interfering with moving mobile technology ahead.

    Apple's unique approach to managed multitasking means two things. They are going to save that long life battery experience and everything should remain snappy for the user. Multitasking on Android and Win Mo becomes very sluggish when too many unregulated apps remain open each stealing the resources of the mobile CPU.

    That is why an Android user must have access to a task manager to kill some of the unneeded tasks that are running in the background when Android becomes sluggish. Android never did not implement multitasking properly on a low power CPU. Here again is another area that Apple can patent to lock in their OS advances and permanently differentiate themselves from iPad wannabees.

    Did you not notice the swipe Jobs made at task managers during the presentation?

    Apple doesn't need developers on their side who can not grasp this. Let them work for someone else, they are unqualified to run with the big dog in mobile.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2010
  16. henry2
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    henry2 iPad Junkie

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    4phun .sir you have hit it on the head about the Adobe ..they do not want to go forward in the next step in the smart hand held device world of computering ..they can not figure that one out then they do not need to be in the market and need to go die off somewhere and be quiet about it..

    it about the future and the future use of the small hand held computer system that are going to be comeing out in the next years by all the major players in the computer companys..

    Apple has beaten them to the punch on this and soon as the whole figures this out Adobe will no longer have a chance for the companys are going to be dumping the adobe set up a more compact stream line O.S system to work in the future system..

    H.P has done everything in it power to get the ipad and iphone shoot down with as many as they can bad reviews about the ipad ..

    they are just -p---- off that apple has beaten them to the punch along with they are takeing the lion share of the market away form the cellphone companys with the apple iphone and now with the launch of the ipad ..every computer company out there is scambleing to get some form of a tablet out and onto the market to get a piece of the pie ..
  17. iBud
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    iBud iPF Novice

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    So when can we expect HTML5 to go mainstream and fix this stupid dilema?
  18. Dorje
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    Dorje iPad Enthusiast

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    It's still being drafted and isn't even at the canidate stage. 2020 at best. Apple pushing it like this may help speed things up with more public preasure but there are still lots of things that need to be done. Has the h.264 VS. .Ogg codac fight been resolved?

    If I were Adobe I'd be putting some effort into finding ways to protech HTML and Javascript code. That goes against the idea of HTML being open to all, but it's something some current Flash venues are used to, being able to hide in code and functions from easy access my end user. A thought, an Adobe decryptor or key plug-in on Mac/PC, or a Browser App that contains the key/decryptor on Mobile. No other processing then that and let the native rendering engine to the work (be it gecko or WebKit). Also easy enough to have it spit out detection code to have an iPad or iPod open the "Adobe" viewer when it gets to a page that needs it.

    I hand realized Apple was being very bitch about the new multi-tasking APIs. Why not just prevent non-open wrapper Apps from multi-tasking at all. Although I guess that would make users confused... perhaps mark them in GUI to indicate lack of Multi-tasking support so the user knows that it'll take all the resources and completly close when left.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2010
  19. gentlefury
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    gentlefury iPad Guru

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    How much you wanna bet someone will come up with a way to side load an app creating outside of the sdk into it to spoof creation.

    Only allowing iPhone sdk for creation is a really stupid move on apples part. They basically just eliminated windows developers from the market. Not smart.
  20. Seadog
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    Seadog Super Moderator Staff Member

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    In a very complicated process that requires as much the art of divining as the skill of programming, Apple has learned some bitter lessons about telling too much, too soon. Other fields and manufacturers have learned the hard way about being too open with new products. For one thing, anything that is not tied down in patets, can be a source of lawsuites from many of the leeches.

    Right or wrong, Apple has come to the conclusion that they must make a break from flash, and they are trying to keep from any way of having to deal with it because they think it will decrease customer experience. And the public does not understand the difference between flash and flash based. Apple is releasing the iPad now, but they are thinking about the iPad/iPhone of five years from now.

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