Latest "Obnoxiosity" from Apple

[parcas1]

And you really don't see anything in the least bit worrisome about that?

This is one from Itunes 7:

The Small Print Project » Annotated iTunes 7 EULA » The Small Print Project

Some of the things pulled out of that are shocking. I made a valiant effort to try and get through about half of the latest one. But it is hard to agree to something when you only have a vague understanding of what's written.

I must say, although there's enough people blindly whining about all the things the iPad can't do, this is a valid gripe. You should at least make the college try to read EULAs. I'm a bit shocked by the people brushing this off as quickly as the people go "OMG DOODZ! IT NO GETS TEH FLASH!!11!" Apple has demonstrated with the JB saga how good it is at reigning in its gated community. At least read a synopsis of the EULA, if nothing else!

The Small Print Project link just reads like somebody with mild paranoia who has come across legalese for the first time in their adult life. Would you rather Apple just said 'for full terms and conditions please go to etc' like all those other contracts we sign when we buy, rent, hire or join most things these days?

PS Where is the 'Steve Jobs ate my Baby' site? There surely must be one, he gets accused of everything else.

 

[jnewell]

C'mon, you can't be serious?

I went off on my own read-the-fine-print exercise after reading your post. Three and a half hours later, I can report that nothing in the United States Constitution mentions any sort of right or freedom to use a technology product without agreeing to any otherwise legal conditions imposed by the vendor. The funny thing is, I never agreed to be bound by the Constitution when I became a citizen. Maybe we can take on the Constitution and these pesky ELU licenses at the same time???

Wow! I can't believe so many folks are so unconcerned about this. P.T. Barnum is reputed to have said that there is a sucker born every minute---and I am inclined to agree!

I did read the brief summary in the intro, but how do I know that they are not trying to dissuade me from reading the whole bolus of legalese?

I have no objection to Apple protecting itself against theft and other chicanery, but to expect each and every customer to wade through 41 pages of crap is just that: Crap, with a capital C!

Suppose the "greeter" at Walmart handed you a 41 page missive when you walked into the store that you had to sign before you made a purchase. Would you complete your shopping trip there? My guess is that you would immediately walk out and do your shopping elsewhere!

The difference? Apple has us locked in as a captive set of buyers. We have already sunk a great deal of money into an iPad. Now, to use it, we are forced to jump through hoops.

Undoubtedly that is the reason Apple refuses to include such things as a Flash reader. That would open them up to competition.

Don't get me wrong. I think Apple products are wonderful. I just don't like to be coerced!!!

 

[antonio107]

And you really don't see anything in the least bit worrisome about that?

This is one from Itunes 7:

The Small Print Project » Annotated iTunes 7 EULA » The Small Print Project

Some of the things pulled out of that are shocking. I made a valiant effort to try and get through about half of the latest one. But it is hard to agree to something when you only have a vague understanding of what's written.

I must say, although there's enough people blindly whining about all the things the iPad can't do, this is a valid gripe. You should at least make the college try to read EULAs. I'm a bit shocked by the people brushing this off as quickly as the people go "OMG DOODZ! IT NO GETS TEH FLASH!!11!" Apple has demonstrated with the JB saga how good it is at reigning in its gated community. At least read a synopsis of the EULA, if nothing else!

The Small Print Project link just reads like somebody with mild paranoia who has come across legalese for the first time in their adult life. Would you rather Apple just said 'for full terms and conditions please go to etc' like all those other contracts we sign when we buy, rent, hire or join most things these days?

PS Where is the 'Steve Jobs ate my Baby' site? There surely must be one, he gets accused of everything else.

Nice strawman. Glad that doesn't bother you. It's different than contracts for a gym/last remaining video stores/whatever, because A) software EULA's are enormous, and B) you're feeding hundreds of dollars of content into your system from this provider, in a vaguely defined realm of ownership.

If I buy "program x" from radioshack or compUSA, I have a CD, in my house, which no manufacturer or retailer can easily come in and snatch away once they have sold it to me. Yet there is no such physical equivalency with apps, provided I update regularly and connect to the Internet. Just look at what happened to Kindle Owners:

Amazon, Kindle and an Orwellian misstep - thestar.com

Replace "ebooks" with "apps," and ask yourself just how secure your purchases really are on your iPads hard drive.


And before someone blindly calls me a hater, I'm not saying "don't buy an iPad," or "iTunes is bad," or even that the EULA is bad. But it behooves you at least be mildly aware of what's going on, and what you're agreeing to. Advising someone to just "click yes and be done with it," or however you say it...that's sucky...

 

[SweetPoison]

Let just all simmer down a wee bit. Please.

 

[Heaviside]

Seems I have somehow struck some raw nerves here---without intending to.

Let me be clear about this (as Dick Nixon used to say before fogging the issue!). I am not anti-Apple. I have mentioned in other posts that my first "personal computer" was an original 128k Mac, and that I only went over to the "Dark Side" because of workplace necessity. So I have no ax to grind against Apple. I think Apple products are far superior to Windows based machines and their apps, but I am still an individual with an individual's reactions. I have never enjoyed anyone or any political party telling me how to vote!

No one responded to my analogy of the greeter at Walmart handing you a 41 page document to sign before you could purchase anything. I think it is a valid one. I am sure that most folks here would be teed off. So what is different about the Apple EULA? Walmart would not be dumb enough to try that, so why can Apple do it, succeed, and even get a lot of folks to defend them while they do?

Someone implied that no adult would ever be shocked by this, to which I can respond only that if I am not an adult now I never will be as I am 68 years old. Maybe the poster of this suggestion has experienced more in his time, but somehow I have my doubts!

Apple and Microsoft and all the other giants think they can do as they please without restraint, and this does trouble me! Yes, I have an iPad, I love this marvelous tool, and I want to use it to its fullest. But do I have to become a mindless thrall to Apple to do it? Frankly, no! I will burn my iPad before I knuckle under to such pettifoggery!

 

[jnewell]

Let just all simmer down a wee bit. Please.

In lieu of further response - will simply say wilco.

 

[SweetPoison]

Let just all simmer down a wee bit. Please.

In lieu of further response - will simply say wilco.

 

[M325i]

That just happened to me as well today, was about to update a free app when up pops this agreement form. I tried reading it but come on who in the right mind would read that many pages? Those "agreements" are made strictly to get you to push that AGREE button fast as possible and without you actually reading what the agreement is.

 

[extendedforecast]

You should NEVER EVER agree to something you haven't read! Contract Law 101! My goodness. Did you not see the story where the tweet pic service tried to slip into the EULA that they now own rights to all the pictures that twitter users choose to upload to their servers. My friends in the photography business were FREAKING out.

Yes I read all my EULAs and leases and TOS agreements. Apple does list the changes at the start of the document. I guess if you were really worried you could cut and paste both html versions into word and hit 'track changes.' But I just assume that the changes listed really are the changes. But yeah you should at least read it once and know what you are agreeing to for sure. You dont want to end up part of a human centipad for sure! LOL.

Sent from my Android 3.1 Motorola Xoom Tablet!

 

[antonio107]

No one responded to my analogy of the greeter at Walmart handing you a 41 page document to sign before you could purchase anything. I think it is a valid one. I am sure that most folks here would be teed off. So what is different about the Apple EULA? Walmart would not be dumb enough to try that, so why can Apple do it, succeed, and even get a lot of folks to defend them while they do?

...

Apple and Microsoft and all the other giants think they can do as they please without restraint, and this does trouble me! Yes, I have an iPad, I love this marvelous tool, and I want to use it to its fullest. But do I have to become a mindless thrall to Apple to do it? Frankly, no! I will burn my iPad before I knuckle under to such pettifoggery!

I missed your analogy (I guess I skimmed through the early part), but you raise a valid concern. Of course, the simple answer is: because they can. If Walmart did as you described, a lot of annoyed people looking to buy tube socks and gum would just goto Target. Without a physical medium, everything
Can only be obtained through iTunes or the app store. It's a good system for quality control, no doubt: there are a lot less crummy, buggy apps than there are windows programs. But it also allows Apple (and Microsoft, etc.) to throw their weight around as you need to use their software.

I'm an intellectual property geek, so this sort of stuff interests me more than most people. Good on you for taking the EULA seriously. I'm worried about the implications of the iCloud, as well.

And no, you don't need to be a mindless thrall. They call it "jail breaking" for a reason. It's not a carte Blanche to steal software (which is illegal and rightfully so), but it lets you use your iPad...well...freely! Tweak with all the soft bits where Apple doesn't want you pushing your grubby fingers in!

 

[David79]

Ill take the changes over them making me enter my billing info every time I had an update or I downloaded an app, I got charged over and over and over many many times in my bank account and had to have it all fixed, so ya new terms was easy LOL

 

[parcas1]

So are we saying Walmart does not have terms and conditions, then? I agree with the original premise, that the EULA is enormous and unlikely to be read, but we have moved on into 'they put a chip in your brain!' territory with some later posts.

If you buy any product from a store there are almost certainly legal restrictions on that purchase that are just as wordy as Apple's in the Apple Store. You just don't see them.

Apple tells you - very often, in fact - what their restrictions are. So they are the villains? The lawyers are the problem really.

Got to go, I just heard a briefcase being opened outside my front door!!!!!

 

[sjleworthy]

And you really don't see anything in the least bit worrisome about that?

This is one from Itunes 7:

The Small Print Project » Annotated iTunes 7 EULA » The Small Print Project

Some of the things pulled out of that are shocking. I made a valiant effort to try and get through about half of the latest one. But it is hard to agree to something when you only have a vague understanding of what's written.

I must say, although there's enough people blindly whining about all the things the iPad can't do, this is a valid gripe. You should at least make the college try to read EULAs. I'm a bit shocked by the people brushing this off as quickly as the people go "OMG DOODZ! IT NO GETS TEH FLASH!!11!" Apple has demonstrated with the JB saga how good it is at reigning in its gated community. At least read a synopsis of the EULA, if nothing else!

not in the least bit worrysome. that stuff, to me personally, has as much impact as watching paint dry. none of that effects my life in the slightest. in fact, it does effect my life - it stresses me out if i have to read it

nothing in that legallity effects me to the point i must take note and change my ways.

if i ignore everything, will i loose money? be arrested? have my life turned upside down? No. Not anything close to it. It's there for Apple, not for me.

Sound arrogant? probably, but what you going to do? what will happen to me if i ignore? i tell you what, nothing sorry, but it's true.

and yes, i did take time to read that short synopsis. again, a total waste of 10 mins of my life. in my adult life i have a lot more important things to stress over than what Apple's lawyers say i can and cant do on my device

 

[extendedforecast]

Until you see pictures of your kids in an advertisement because you didn't realize that by using a cloud service on someone else's server you signed away your rights to your intellectual property. It doesn't effect you until it effects you.

I keep a prepaid debit card tied to my iTunes account since Apple states they will not reimburse you for any fradulent activity. Some hacker on the smae unsecured wireless network at Starbucks steal your login and buy $500 worth of music? You'd better hope the credit card companies terms are more forgiving than Apple's cuz they don't have to credit your account one cent.

Sent from my Android 3.1 Motorola Xoom Tablet!

 

[twerppoet]

Of course almost no other store, online or not, reimburses you for credit fraud. It's all through the Credit Card companies. They may, or may not, seek a refund through the store, but you personally only deal with your card company.

Not that I'm arguing against being familiar (at least in general terms) what the EULA says, or guarding your card. Caveat emptor, and all that.

It's not an Apple thing. This is the state of the industry. The biggest reason it's so prominent online is because they have requirements (or maybe it's only a tradition) to make their policies available and get explicit agreement. The public throws a hissy fit if they don't. We demand this (openness) of our online services.

Most brick and mortar companies are not expected to ask you to agree to their policies before a purchase (though they occasionally fall foul of not being open enough). That's not because they don't have policies, but because the public has lived with them for so long it doesn't even occur to us that we should have a right to know and agree.

Instead if you walk into the store and buy something, you've just agreed. Walmart has a return policy, it includes damages, what they will and will not accept or be responsible for, etc. It applies whether you checked a little box or not. They are nice enough to supply the legalese if you ask for it, but they have no problem leaving you not only in ignorance of what those policies are, but the fact that they have them. Again, caveat emptor.