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IPad new generation vs blackberry playbook

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zphone

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wbeasleyatsmu said:
That is certainly true but it doesn't change the fact that VB is EXTREMELY dated. You can run most things with Windows 98, but who would want to with reduced speed, capability, and support? It can be difficult for large companies to transition and is why so many government agencies still program in C. Even so, at some point a transition is always needed because they must have been using pascal or something of that nature before C. I'm not saying that there isn't a place for people who know VB, i'm saying there shouldn't be. Visual basic should have been taken out to the farm long ago.

I get the impression that you are quite young. And while I am not that old i'll have to say Just wait, one day you will be the establishment...
You will not want to change things just for change sake even if there is an improvement when the old method works. ;-)
 

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I have the impression he is a college student, and that in itself, says a whole lot. In the real world, IT has to do things in stages, and sometimes it can be a hardship. Example, if you have a data management program for several hundred employees. It handles work orders, purchases, inventory, and time management. It also runs in DOS. It can take years to evaluate replacement programs since they are always changing. Even when a program is selected, all existing data has to be transitioned, which can take months of dedication. And you also must begin the training. First the administrators who will work directly, must be trained, then the clerks who do the most input, so they can install all of the old data. From there, the training trickles down. And as you go, changes must be made due to discoveries of issues. Then retraining, etc. You can be 2-3 years in transition. And think of all the number of dedicated programs that large organizations must use. And the government often has to have special programs written for various purposes. If the intitial request is not spot on, millions can be spent with no useful result. Often, you can have a reputable vendor make promises, and then if they cannot deliver due to programming complications, you have lost several years of work, you will spend another few years in litigation, and then you are back to square one. As example, here is my story:

August 2007, given marching orders for among other things, an upgrade to the plant operating system.
January 2008, Hired the engineering firm. Gave them my narrative for the control system.
May 2008, Selected the controls contractor. $100 lower bid over several hundred thousand got us a contractor with a good reputation, but no experience with our general contractor or with our construction manager.
January 2010, Scheduled startup. Every other area of the contract was ready to go, but the control system was not ready. Contractor had placed his son in charge of programming and nothing was right.
August 2010, Finally started up, without all the issues resolved. Operated for a few days before the contractor screwed up and forced a week long shutdown to make repairs to equipment caused by the screw up.
September 2010, Son was banned from the plant.
November 2010, Contractor was removed from the job after the legal notifications and meetings with the insurance company. Another contractor was called in to make emergency patches.
April 2012, Negotiations are still continueing with the insurance company to get a replacement contractor to rebuild the system. The hardware is good, but the software is infuriating bad. The next contractor will have to build a whole new program and then replace the existing software. It will take months of hard work. Plus the old contractor had a bad tendency to not want to work with out existing equipment. Until we put a stop to it, he had us spend thousands on equipment because the contractor said it wouldn't work right with the old stuff. One of the items was a couple pump units that were replaced with units that have given us a fair amount of problems since we have installed them.

This is reality. No matter how good a project team is, it often boils down to the level of the worse person. And the more complex the issue, the more problems you will encounter. This is why the young engineers are in the field for most projects. It is hard on us older people to deal with these dramas on a daily basis. Add to that, going from a known and established software program to an unknown, with unknow issues, and programmers not as familiar with it. Life is chaotic and you must deal with that. Sorry to get so far afield, but it happens.
 
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wbeasleyatsmu

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I am a college student but I know all too well the frustrations of transitioning from one programming language to another. The thing is, even if it is difficult transition will need to happen at some point. Despite being a student I have also done work for Microsoft, Cigital, and some work for a small company known as Group Excellence. While I may be young the general consensus seems to be people who grew up with VB (individuals in their 40s) seem to be far more adamant in their support for VB. It is being phased out for a reason and it being phased out isn't an opinion either. M.I.T. doesn't offer visual basic, Stanford doesn't, Berkeley doesn't, Cornell doesn't, in fact i'm not aware of a university that does. When it first came out it was great but as time passes it loses it's value, as is the case with all technology. Remember the Motorola Razor, and how great it was? The only thing they are used for now is a make shift boomerang. I can't think of anyone who would argue that the big three are java, c#, and c++ (give or take a little movement with maybe an objective c being ranked somewhere in there or a python). Last, you can compile VB with visual studio anyway so even if you are still stuck on VB visual studio offers that along with more popular programming languages.
 

skimonkey

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Food for thought...college students may not all be "young," and may have returned to school after 15 years in practice. I am a perfect example of this.
 

Seadog

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I am still using a updated RAZR. It still works and suites my needs just fine. Just because something is not being taught in college does not mean it is obsolete. One of the big issues for several major companies is the problem of retiring experts on COBOL programming. Now COBOL is a fifty year old language, but it still is in use. I would hate to say when it was last taught in college. I am sure somewhere it still is. Even so, you do not just tell a mega corporation that they need to go to a newer language. If they tell you to learn a fifty year old language, you have two options, and only one pays.

I learn basic programming in 1976, and promptly forgot all of it. C was the language to learn then, and it still is. You know C, then you can transition to C++, C#, and JAVA with no problems. And if you are doing programming today, you had better know PHP, RUBY, and PERL. And while you are knocking Visual Basic, do not forget that VB is the forerunner of VB.NET. In fact, they dropped the .NET a few years ago. Visual Studio and VB go hand-in-hand. Don't discount the old, just because something new is out there. The biggest failure I see from most new engineers is their egos do not allow them to learn from the old hands. If you want to learn, it is the hands-on people that have the knowledge you do not learn from textbooks.
 
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wbeasleyatsmu

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Well, really almost everything in technology from the last 30 years would still work. A 15 inch black and white tv still works, yes? A playstation 1? Without starting to drift off into sociology isn't newer better the american way? The IPad 3 still does the same thing as the IPad 2 which did the same thing as the Ipad 1 which did the same thing as an Iphone 3g which did the same thing as a cell phone and a laptop give or take a few things. We get these new products because they are an improvement on there predecessor. Hypothetically you could still do the same thing with a bunch of technology that was invented 20 years ago. However, if everyone did this it would devastate the economy and kill technological development. Also, while it can be beneficial to learn in order to get a job why do you think next to no one teaches it? In comparison to java, c #, c++, objective c, perl, php, or python it ranks around 7. If someone were creating a legitimate piece of software or even an app in vb people would look at them like there crazy. Partially because it isn't even accepted by Apple (uses objective c), Android(java/c++), or windows (c#/c++) and wapps are typically coded in php. There is not to many places it is used except in an established company who has yet to switch to a more common and more powerful programming language. You can't argue when I say it isn't as powerful, efficient, it has poor syntax, closed source, limitations, it IS NOT cross-platform, user defined data structs are limited in their support, along with a number of other things I can't think of. While many companies don't intend on moving to a java or c# given all of these issues one could certainly make the argument it is time. Just because something still works doesn't mean it shouldn't be replaced.

Also, I just want to make sure you know i'm just saying what I feel and I'm not getting up tight about it. I know a lot of people can kind of take it out of hand on these forums.
 
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wbeasleyatsmu

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Starting to get back on track, who wouldn't want the Microsoft tablet in here if it could sync remotely to your 360 and you could play on your tablet using a bluetooth remote? That would be a game changer right there, especially if you could sync all your apps to the 360 and vise versa? I don't even have a 360 anymore but I would actually go out and buy one with that capability. If microsoft isn't considering this they should they peek interest in current 360 fans and open the 360 up to a flood of new prospective buyers with the potential of playing legitimate games on their tablet. There is something similar already out there called onlive but there a few flaws like having to re-buy the game. Also, it kind of sucks having to play the same part in a story mode twice. Also, it is only available on the android market (sorry all the Ipad people on here, I know that is almost exclusively what this forum is comprised of).
 
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zphone

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...who wouldn't want the Microsoft tablet in here if it could sync remotely to your 360 and you could play on your tablet using a bluetooth remote?
I don't have a 360 - I do have a PS3 and they offer their own remote play solution. problem is nothing works across manufacturers.

That would be a game changer right there, especially if you could sync all your apps to the 360 and vise versa? I don't even have a 360 anymore but I would actually go out and buy one with that capability. If microsoft isn't considering this they should they peek interest in current 360 fans and open the 360 up to a flood of new prospective buyers with the potential of playing legitimate games on their tablet. There is something similar already out there called onlive but there a few flaws like having to re-buy the game. Also, it kind of sucks having to play the same part in a story mode twice. Also, it is only available on the android market (sorry all the Ipad people on here, I know that is almost exclusively what this forum is comprised of).

Uhmm... not almost - in case you did not notice this IS an iPad forum... I actually do visit an Android forum to discuss topics on my Android tablet. Again, I don't see what any of these manufacturers are doing different from one another in terms of limiting their ecosystem. In fact apple seems to me more open now that I have been able to work past some of the iTunes issues.
 
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wbeasleyatsmu

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That's cool I didn't know they were capable of that but we were talking about Visual basic which can't stretch across 2 monitors on under any condition plus it won't run on an apple product anyway (atleast to my knowledge without partitioning the hdd)
 
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wbeasleyatsmu

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Can you send me a link to that remote play solution all I have seen is stuff about the vita and failed efforts on the tablet s.
 

zphone

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That's cool I didn't know they were capable of that but we were talking about Visual basic which can't stretch across 2 monitors on under any condition plus it won't run on an apple product anyway (atleast to my knowledge without partitioning the hdd)

I run PC software on my Macbook using virtualization. But the software review I linked to specifically says it supports PC and Mac, and there are links there to the software... I am not sure what you are seeing about vita and stuff? Seriously what does iPad discussion have to do with VB? Even if it does not support stretching across two screens can you not run a debugger, or a manual on another screen?
 
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