Sir Jonathan Ive 成功的條件:享受創作的過程

Discussion in 'Chinese Dedicated iPad forum' started by csllanna, May 5, 2012.

  1. csllanna
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    csllanna Super Moderator Staff Member

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    我喜歡看訪談節目,喜歡在短短的半小時到兩個小時內,從另一個他/她的生活體驗和談話中,獲得和我的世界截然不同的歷程,觀點,想法,以及一切。

    在加入iPadForum.net後,也獲得寶貴的機會,和馬來西亞的Apps Developer - Eden Yap 進行一次訪問:從網頁到應用程序, 您己準備好了嗎?

    從訪問中,我得到的小小心得是;天時,地利,人和, 缺一不可。天時是雙方都必須要有合適的時間,準備充足的心情, 地利是訪問的地點必須要不受干擾,最好適合錄音/錄影,人和則是雙方在訪問進行期間的思想火花交流, 新的想法,新的問題會在溝通衝擊中產生。

    而結論是:好的訪問是可以得到資訊充實的回應,同時可以讓聽眾/觀察/讀者有所得益。

    就正如蘋果第二號大人物,工業設計資深副總裁喬納森‧伊夫(Jonathan Ive), 唔不,是Sir Jonathan Ive, 因為他已被英國封為騎士, 在最近和倫敦標準晚報(London Evening Standard)的一篇難得的獨家專訪中,我只看到一個觀點: 成功的條件:享受創作的過程




    image-2694675059.jpg


    那您又看到了什麼?


    Sir Jonathan Ive, Jony to his friends, is arguably one of the world's most influential Londoners. The 45-year-old was born in Chingford, and went to the same school as David Beckham. He met his wife, Heather Pegg, while in secondary school. They married in 1987, have twin sons and now live in San Francisco.


    Sir Jonathan Ive,或是他朋友口中的Jony,是世界上最具有影響力的倫敦人之一。45歲的他出生於Chingford,並且與David Beckham就讀於同一所學校。而在他就讀中學時,他遇見了他的妻子,Heather Pegg。兩人於1987年結婚,現在有一對雙胞胎兒子,居住於San Francisco。

    As Apple's Senior Vice President of Industrial Design, he is the driving force behind the firm's products, from the Mac computer to the iPod, iPhone and, most recently the iPad. He spoke exclusively to the London Evening Standard at the firm's Cupertino headquarters.

    身為Apple的工業設計資深副總裁,他是公司產品背後的原動力,從Mac電腦到iPod、iPhone以及最近的iPad。現在,他在Apple的Cupertino總部與London Evening Standard進行了一段獨家訪談。

    Q: You recently received a Knighthood for services to design, was that a proud moment?

    您最近由於設計方面的傑出表現被封為騎士,對您來說這算是個值得驕傲的時刻嗎?

    A: I was absolutely thrilled, and at the same time completely humbled. I am very aware that I'm the product of growing up in England, and the tradition of designing and making, of England industrialising first. The emphasis and value on ideas and original thinking is an innate part of British culture, and in many ways, that describes the traditions of design.

    我當然非常地高興,同時也非常地謙卑。我很清楚我的成就是來自於我所成長的英國,以及英國工業化傳統的設計與製造業。

    重視思想以及原創思維的價值,是英國文化與生俱來的一部分,在許多方面來說,這也可以解釋許多設計方面的傳統。




    Q: Is London still an important city for design?

    倫敦仍然是在設計方面的重要城市嗎?

    A: I left London in 1992, but I'm there 3-4 times a year, and love visiting. It's a very important city, and makes a significant contribution to design, to creating something new where previously something didn't exist.

    我在1992年離開倫敦,但是每年都會回來三~四次,我喜歡回來這裡。倫敦是一個非常重要的城市,對於設計做出了重大的貢獻,讓人們可以創造出以往不存在的嶄新事物。



    Q: How does London differ from Silicon Valley?

    倫敦與矽谷的不同之處在於?

    A: The proximity of different creative industries and London is remarkable, and is in many ways unique. I think that has led to a very different feel to Silicon Valley.

    倫敦的特點在與許多不同的創意產業之間非常接近,在其他方面也非常地獨特。我想這也讓倫敦與矽谷的感覺很不一樣。



    Q: Why did you decide to move to California?

    為何您會決定搬到加州?

    A: What I enjoy about being here is there is a remarkable optimism, and an attitude to try out and explore ideas without the fear of failure. There is a very simple and practical sense that a couple of people have an idea and decide to form a company to do it. I like that very practical and straightforward approach.

    There's not a sense of looking to generate money, its about having an idea and doing it , I think that characterises this area and its focus.

    我之所以會喜歡在加州,是因為這裡有非常明顯的樂觀主義,以及在不懼怕失敗的態度下,嘗試與探索各種想法的態度。在這裡有一個非常簡單、現實的感覺,只要有一小群人有了主意,就可以開一家公司去將它實現。我喜歡這種非常實用、簡單的方式。

    在這裡並沒那種期望賺大錢的感覺,更重要的是有想法並且將其實現──我覺得這就是矽谷周遭的特徵以及焦點。




    Q: What makes design different at Apple?

    是什麼原因讓設計在Apple內顯得如此地不同?

    A: We struggle with the right words to describe the design process at Apple, but it is very much about designing and prototyping and making. When you separate those, I think the final result suffers. If something is going to be better, it is new, and if it's new you are confronting problems and challenges you don't have references for. To solve and address those requires a remarkable focus. There's a sense of being inquisitive and optimistic, and you don't see those in combination very often.

    我們努力地試著使用正確的詞彙來描述在Apple的設計過程。不過設計對於Apple而言,大部分的重點都是在於設計、製作原型以及生產。我覺得如果將這些過程給分開,必定會影響到最終的結果。

    如果某些東西正在變得更好,這就是新的。如果這個新的東西讓你面臨到許多問題與挑戰,這時候你將沒有任何前例可供參考。

    要解決、處理這些問題,需要極度的專注。在此時,會有種好奇與樂觀並存的感覺,而這兩者的結合是非常地少見的。




    Q: How does a new product come about at Apple?

    Apple的新產品是如何誕生的?

    A: What I love about the creative process, and this may sound naive, but it is this idea that one day there is no idea, and no solution, but then the next day there is an idea. I find that incredibly exciting and conceptually actually remarkable.

    The nature of having ideas and creativity is incredibly inspiring. There is an idea which is solitary, fragile and tentative and doesn't have form.

    What we've found here is that it then becomes a conversation, although remains very fragile.

    When you see the most dramatic shift is when you transition from an abstract idea to a slightly more material conversation. But when you made a 3D model, however crude, you bring form to a nebulous idea, and everything changes : the entire process shifts. It galvanises and brings focus from a broad group of people. It's a remarkable process.

    我喜歡創作的過程,也許這聽起來很天真,但是也正是這種想法,可以讓某天沒有主意、沒有解決方案,而隔天突然冒出許多主意來。我覺得這樣讓人非常地興奮,而其概念實際上也非常地驚人。

    概念與創意的本質能夠鼓動著人心。概念通常是單獨、脆弱、沒有任何把握、並且不具備任何的形式。

    而我們所發現的是,即使概念開始形成對話,它仍然是非常脆弱的。而當你看到最戲劇性的轉變,是從抽象的概念轉變到稍微有點具體的對話時。

    但是,當你將模糊的概念做成3D模型時,無論它如何地原始粗糙,所有的事情都改變了──整個過程都起了變化。它激勵著大家,並且讓人們的焦點轉移到它的身上。這是一個非常了不起的過程。




    Q: What makes a great designer?

    什麼才能造就一位偉大的設計師?

    A: It is so important to be light on your feet, inquisitive and interested in being wrong. You have that wonderful fascination with the what if questions, but you also need absolute focus and a keen insight into the context and what is important, that is really terribly important. Its about contradictions you have to navigate.

    光著腳前進,對於犯錯感到好奇、並充滿興趣是非常重要的。

    在有了「如果」這個魅力十足的美妙問題之時,也要具備著絕對的專注、持續深入本質、尋找重點,這是非常、非常重要的。這個過程,其實就是在疏通其中的矛盾之處。




    Q: What are your goals when setting out to build a new product?

    在打造一個新產品的時候,你們會有怎樣的目標?

    A: Our goals are very simple : to design and make better products. If we can't make something that is better, we won't do it.

    我們的目標很簡單──設計與製造更好的產品。如果我們無法讓某樣東西變的更好,我們就不會做。



    Q: Why has Apple's competition struggled to do that?

    為何Apple的競爭者如此難做到這點?

    A: That's quite unusual, most of our competitors are interesting in doing something different, or want to appear new :I think those are completely the wrong goals. A product has to be genuinely better. This requires real discipline, and that's what drives us , a sincere, genuine appetite to do something that is better. Committees just don't work, and it's not about price, schedule or a bizarre marketing goal to appear different – they are corporate goals with scant regard for people who use the product.

    這真的很不尋常,我們的競爭者中,大部分都感興趣於做出不一樣的東西,或是希望出現全新的東西。我覺得這些都是完全錯誤的目的。一件產品必須要誠實地變得更好。這需要真正地磨練,而這也是驅使著我們的動力 ── 為了做出更好的東西的最真實、純粹的慾望。

    設計委員會的制度是行不通的,這些並不是關於價格、進度時程或是只為了有所不同而出現的詭異行銷目標。這都是企業所關心的,而他們很少考慮到實際使用產品的人們。




    Q: When did you first become aware of the importance of designers?

    您是何時開始注意到設計師的重要性的?

    A: First time I was aware of this sense of the group of people who made something was when I first used a Mac : I'd gone through college in the 80s using a computer and had a horrid experience. Then I discovered the mac, it was such a dramatic moment and I remember it so clearly, there was a real sense of the people who made it.

    我第一次發覺那種一群人製作出某些東西的感覺,是在我第一次使用Mac的時候。我在80年代時正在上大學,當時我在使用電腦方面遇到了可怕的經歷。然後,我發現了Mac,那非常戲劇性的時刻,我的印象非常地清楚──我真的感覺到了做出這台機器的人們。

    Q: When you are coming up with product ideas such as the iPod, do you try to solve a problem?

    當您在提出一些產品的概念,例如iPad時,您會試著解決其中的問題嗎?

    A: There are different approaches : sometimes things can irritate you so you become aware of a problem, which is a very pragmatic approach and the least challenging.

    What is more difficult is when you are intrigued by an opportunity. That, I think, really exercises the skills of a designer. It's not a problem you're aware or, nobody has articulated a need. But you start asking questions, what if we do this, combine it with that, would that be useful? This creates opportunities that could replace entire categories of device, rather than tactically responding to an individual problem. That's the real challenge, and that's what is exciting.

    有許多不同的方法,有些時候這些事情可以刺激你,讓你可以發現問題。這是非常務實的過程,同時也是最少挑戰性的部份。

    更困難的部分,是在對一個機會產生興趣的時候。我認為,這才是真正能磨練設計師技巧的時候。

    這並不是一個你發覺到的問題,也許根本沒有人曾經表示過有這樣的需求。但是你開始提問,如果我們開始這樣做,或是與另一個東西結合起來,這樣會有用處嗎?

    這創造了一個可以代替整個裝置類型的機會,而不只是在戰術上回應各別的問題。這就是真正的挑戰,同時也正是讓人興奮的事情。




    Q: Has that led to new products within Apple?

    這也是Apple的新產品誕生的原因嗎?

    A: Examples are products like the iPhone, iPod and iPad. That fanatical attention to detail and coming across a problem and being determined to solve it is critically important , that defines your minute by minute, day by day experience.

    以iPhone、iPod、iPad這類產品為例。瘋狂地專注在細節、迎接問題並下定決心將其解決,是極其重要的。這同時也定義了你的每一分鐘、每一天的經歷。



    Q: How to you know consumers will want your products?

    你如何知道消費者會想要你的產品呢?

    A: We don't do focus groups, that is the job of the designer. It's unfair to ask people who don't have a sense of the opportunities of tomorrow from the context of today to design.

    我們不做焦點團體訪談──因為這應該是設計師們的工作。去要求那些處在今日的背景下,對於未來的機會沒有任何感觸的人們進行設計,是完全不公平的事。



    Q: Your team of designers is very small, is that the key to its success?

    你們的設計團隊非常的小,這是成功的關鍵嗎?

    A: The way we work at Apple is that the complexity of these products really makes it critical to work collaboratively, with different areas of expertise. I think that's one of the things about my job I enjoy the most. I work with silicon designers, electronic and mechanical engineers, and I think you would struggle to determine who does what when we get together. We're located together, we share the same goal, have exactly the same preoccupation with making great products.

    One of the other things that enables this is that we've been doing this together for many years , there is a collective confidence when you are facing a seemingly insurmoutable challenge, and there were multiple times on the iPhone or ipad where we have to think : will this work, we simply didn't have points of reference.

    我們在Apple工作的方式,由於這些產品的複雜性,讓我們必須真正地與各種不同專業領域的人們一起工作。我覺得這也是我在工作中最享受的一件事。我與矽谷的設計師、電子與機械工程師們一起工作,我相信你會想要努力地了解當我們一起工作時,每個人各負責那些部分。我們聚集在一起,有著相同的目標,並且同樣地熱中於做出偉大的產品來。

    而另一個能讓我們如此工作的原因,是因為我們已經這樣一起工作了許多年,讓我們在面對看似無法解決的問題時,產生出一種對集體的信任感。這種信任感,曾經無數次地在iPhone、iPad研發途中,當我們思考著「這樣能行得通嗎?」的時候出現,而當時我們根本沒有任何實際的根據。




    Q: Is it easy to get sidetracked by tiny details on a project?

    在專案中,是否很容易由於小細節而分心呢?

    A: When you're trying to solve a problem on a new product type, you become completely focused on problems that seem a number of steps removed from the main product. That problem solving can appear a little abstract, and it is easy to lose sight of the product. I think that is where having years and years of experience gives you that confidence that if you keep pushing, you'll get there.

    當你試圖在新的產品原型上解決一個問題時,你會變得完全專注在問題中,導致似乎有許多步驟從主要產品中被移除了。那樣的解決方法似乎有點抽象,並且很容易對產品失焦。我覺得這需要有多年的經驗,讓你能有信心認為在不斷地前進後,最終能夠到達目標。

    Q: Can this obsession with detail get out of control?

    對於細節的迷戀是否會失控呢?

    A: It's incredibly time consuming, you can spent months and months and months on a tiny detail, but unless you solve that tiny problem, you can't solve this other, fundamental product.

    You often feel there is no sense these can be solved, but you have faith. This is why these innovations are so hard, there are no points of reference.

    這真的非常地耗費時間,你可以花上接連數個月的時間在一個微小的細節上。但是除非先解決的這個小問題,要不然便無法接著解決其他產品根基的部份。

    你常常會覺得這些不可能被完成,但是你有著信念。這也是為何創新是如此地困難,


    Q: How do you know you've succeeded?

    你如何知道你已經成功了呢?

    A :It's a very strange thing for a designer to say, but one of the things that really irritates me in products is when I'm aware of designers wagging their tails in my face.

    Our goal is simple objects, objects that you can't imagine any other way. Simplicity is not the absence of clutter. Get it right, and you become closer and more focused on the object. For instance, the iPhoto app we created for the new iPad, it completely consumes you and you forget you are using an iPad.

    設計師說這種話其實很奇怪,但是對於一件產品,讓我會覺得生氣的是當我感覺到設計師是在向我炫耀的時候。

    我們的目標是簡單的物件,一個你無法想像出有任何其他方式的物件。簡單並不只是去除雜亂。只要做的正確,你會變得更接近、更能專注在物件上。例如我們為了新iPad而製作的iPhoto軟體,它完全吸引了你,讓你忘記你正在用一台iPad。


    Q: What are the biggest challenges in constantly innovating?

    在持續的創新中面臨的最大挑戰是?

    A: For as long as we've been doing this, I am still surprised how difficult it is to do this, but you know exactly when you're there, it can be the smallest shift, and suddenly transforms the object, without any contrivance.

    Some of the problem solving in the iPad is really quite remarkable, there is this danger you want to communicate this to people. I think that is a fantastic irony, how oblivious people are to the acrobatics we've performed to solve a problem, but that's our job, and I think people know there is tremendous care behind the finished product.

    雖然我們一直持續這樣做,我仍然對這一切感到非常的驚訝。但是你非常明白你現在正處在的位置,這可能只是最微小的變化,但是卻能在沒有任何預先規劃之下,突然轉變了整個物件。

    我們在iPad上解決的問題中,有一部分相當地引人注目,其中包含試圖將這些傳達給人們的意圖,而這是相當危險的。

    我認為這是如夢幻般地諷刺,要如何讓人們忽視我們用來解決問題的特技表演?不過這正是我們的工作。我也認為,人們知道在完成產品的背後,存在著我們對此極大的關注。



    Q: Do consumers really care about good design?

    消費者真的在意好的設計嗎?

    A: One of the things we've really learnt over the last 20 years is that while people would often struggle to articulate why they like something, as consumers we are incredibly discerning, we sense where has been great care in the design, and when there is cynicism and greed. It's one of the thing we've found really encouraging.

    我們在過去20年間所學到的一件事是,人麼常常會努力地解釋他們為何喜歡某些東西。而作為一個消費者,我們更是極其挑剔。

    我們發現,即使在充滿嘲諷與貪婪時,我們仍舊必須非常謹慎地看待設計。這是我們所發現的許多事情之中,真的能夠激勵我們的其中一件事。



    Q: Users have become incredibly attached, almost obsessively so, to Apple's products, why is this?

    使用者在今天已經變得如此喜愛Apple的產品,幾乎已經到了癡迷的地步。為何會如此呢?

    A: It sound so obvious, but I remember being shocked to use a Mac, and somehow have this sense I was having a keen awareness of the people and values of those who made it.

    I think that people's emotional connection to our products is that they sense our care, and the amount of work that has gone into creating it.

    這聽起來是如此地明顯,不過我至今仍然記得在初次使用Mac時被震撼到的感覺。而不知為何地讓我有種感覺,好像我對那些製作Mac的人們,以及他們的價值觀有著深刻地認識。

    我認為人們會將情感與我們的產品連結起來的原因,是因為他們感覺到了我們對他們的關注,以及在創造這些產品時所投注的大量心力。



    iPadForums.net中文部首頁:http://www.ipadforums.net/chinese-dedicated-ipad-forum/
    馬來西亞iPad論壇首頁:http://www.ipadforums.net/malaysian-dedicated-ipad-forum/





    文章來源:
    1) Sir Jonathan Ive: The iMan cometh

    2) Sir Jonathan Ive:"一件產品必須誠實地變得更好。"
    Last edited: May 5, 2012

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