Apple a bit bashful - censorship in action...

[Prasius]

Apple accused of censorship after iPad erotic fiction removed from top 10 chart | Mail Online

Is this the downside of ebooks? I'm not talking about a little bit of erotic fiction which offends some religious zealots or parents who rely on someone else to supervise their childrens exposure to unsuitable material - but censorship of the written word.

What's next? The communist manifesto? Mein kampf? Plato's Republic?

Not good.

 

[Bremen]

Only the government can censor..... a company not allowing certain material on their product is their business choice. There are plenty of places to get erotic fiction and port, don't worry..... Apple for example refusing to allow a KKK or Black Panther or Third Reich app is their business decision. A government not allowing such organizations to have a voice is censorship..... The UK censoring the sale of certain video games is censorship....

 

[muyoso]

Only the government can censor..... a company not allowing certain material on their product is their business choice. There are plenty of places to get erotic fiction and port, don't worry..... Apple for example refusing to allow a KKK or Black Panther or Third Reich app is their business decision. A government not allowing such organizations to have a voice is censorship..... The UK censoring the sale of certain video games is censorship....

I think you are getting a little mixed up. The first amendment applies only to the government, censorship is just the act of censoring.

Corporate censorship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apple certainly practices censorship. So does walmart. What else would you even call it without sounding like you are trying to explain censorship without using the word? A business decision? Of course its a business decision. Anything Apple decides is a business decision.

 

[Prasius]

Just seemed a little silly to me and very 1950's to me. I'm curious to see where Apples "business decisions" line is drawn....

While I understand what you are saying Bremen, I consider anyone dictating what I may or may not see as an adult to be censorship. What if all ebook providers decided to stop the sale of a particular book because they didnt like what was in it? Is that "okay" just because it's a business decision? It's okay for a business to do that, but not a government?

There is just something about it that sits really unwell with me. Before anyone points out that these were just, presumably, silly erotic novels, I get that; but really see it as being besides the point. Hey, its just a silly political text.. No need for you to read and worry your little head about that.. Now run along you ignorant little adult......

 

[Bremen]

Only the government can censor..... a company not allowing certain material on their product is their business choice. There are plenty of places to get erotic fiction and port, don't worry..... Apple for example refusing to allow a KKK or Black Panther or Third Reich app is their business decision. A government not allowing such organizations to have a voice is censorship..... The UK censoring the sale of certain video games is censorship....

I think you are getting a little mixed up. The first amendment applies only to the government, censorship is just the act of censoring.

Corporate censorship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apple certainly practices censorship. So does walmart. What else would you even call it without sounding like you are trying to explain censorship without using the word? A business decision? Of course its a business decision. Anything Apple decides is a business decision.

You are right, but I was not mixed up at all. The OP brought "The communist manifesto? Mein kampf? Plato's Republic?" into the mix, and it is just silly to even suggest any connection. FYI Just because someone who jots down a Wikipedia entry uses the word 'censorship" means nothing to me. I know it does to many others, but choosing which products to stock in your store is not censorship. There are plenty of other stores...... Only if the government forbids the product from being sold in their county, is it true censorship. A bookstore (for example) cannot stock every possible book ever made in history. So they decide what their inventory will be. Just because they may not stock a particular book is not censorship, it's just they don't stock that particular book. If I own a bookstore and choose not to sell the bible (the most banned book in history, and is even now banned in several countries), it is my choice as owner of the shop, and not censorship. But, if the government tell ALL bookstores that they cannot sell bibles... that is censorship.

 

[Bremen]

Just seemed a little silly to me and very 1950's to me. I'm curious to see where Apples "business decisions" line is drawn....

While I understand what you are saying Bremen, I consider anyone dictating what I may or may not see as an adult to be censorship. What if all ebook providers decided to stop the sale of a particular book because they didnt like what was in it? Is that "okay" just because it's a business decision? It's okay for a business to do that, but not a government?

There is just something about it that sits really unwell with me. Before anyone points out that these were just, presumably, silly erotic novels, I get that; but really see it as being besides the point. Hey, its just a silly political text.. No need for you to read and worry your little head about that.. Now run along you ignorant little adult......

And I totally agree with the highlighted statement above. But no one is dictating that to you. Apple is just saying they are not going to provide that product to you. For example... If a game seller in the UK does not want to carry a certain video game because they think it is to violent, you just go somewhere else.... BUT, if the GOVERNMENT says you can't sell it in the country, THEN they are dictating what you can see. You then cannot view the content, because you are forbidden by your government from viewing it....

 

[Prasius]

Is it so silly to say that a company might consider Mein Kampf to be promoting racism and making a "business decision" to decide you're not responsible and level headed enough to read it?

I admit I picked extremes for the purpose of making the point.

 

[Bremen]

Is it so silly to say that a company might consider Mein Kampf to be promoting racism and making a "business decision" to decide you're not responsible and level headed enough to read it?

I admit I picked extremes for the purpose of making the point.

It's all good.... kinda fun thread really

 

[cmalinowski]

And I totally agree with the highlighted statement above. But no one is dictating that to you. Apple is just saying they are not going to provide that product to you. For example... If a game seller in the UK does not want to carry a certain video game because they think it is to violent, you just go somewhere else.... BUT, if the GOVERNMENT says you can't sell it in the country, THEN they are dictating what you can see. You then cannot view the content, because you are forbidden by your government from viewing it....

Technically, if the government is banning the sale of the items, they may not necessarily be banning you from viewing it. I know it's a fine line, but it's there

And I completely agree with pretty much all posts here. It's a crock for apple to dictate, but it is what they have been doing for ages and we've all been okay with it. It is their choice not to sell it, and our choice not to purchase their products.

What if all ebook providers decided to stop the sale of a particular book because they didnt like what was in it?

In a free market economy this shouldn't happen. Someone would pop up to fill the void and sell the book. Unfortunately, Apple would not allow that app on their iDevice. But the book would be for sale

Ultimately, I think Apple's choices to limit what they allow on their devices to only that which meets some Jobs' morality bar may hurt them as more open devices with similar abilities hit the streets, it is still their right to do it. It is now our right to jailbreak the devices they provided to get whatever we want on them.

I love this country... But I also love a lot of others too.

Chris

 

[iPadCharlie]

You shouldn't be mad at Apple for not offering "adult" material, you should be upset at the person who held a gun to your head and made you buy an iPad!

 

[Prasius]

Someone would pop up to fill the void and sell the book. Unfortunately, Apple would not allow that app on their iDevice. But the book would be for sale

Well I'm guessing the Amazon and Kindle App allow a little more freedom, which gives the ability to download things that Apple may not like?

1991-C4 - I think you've kind of missed the point of my post. It's not really about the specific books they've removed, but the fact they will remove books at will, and what guidelines they apply.

I've never actually bothered looking to see what Apple will allow and what they won't. Is Secret Dairies of a Call Girl excluded? Lady Chatterly's Lover? Is it certain words they'll ban or is there a percentage of sexual content they'll allow in a novel before they won't sell it?

Seems like the App Store debacle all over again...

 

[iPadCharlie]

1991-C4 - I think you've kind of missed the point of my post. It's not really about the specific books they've removed, but the fact they will remove books at will, and what guidelines they apply.

With all due respect, I think you missed my point which was that no one forced you to buy an iPad or to buy books through iBooks.

I think the situation would be totally different if your only choice of book vendors was iBooks, but that is not the case. There are at least a dozen other sources for electronic publications, paid and free.

And it would also be different if Apple told Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Borders and the others what they could or could not offer to iDevice customers, but again, they don't.

So if you don't like the way Apple does business, vote with your wallet and simply buy your stuff somewhere else.

Easy, huh?

 

[Prasius]

I think the situation would be totally different if your only choice of book vendors was iBooks, but that is not the case. There are at least a dozen other sources for electronic publications, paid and free.

And it would also be different if Apple told Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Borders and the others what they could or could not offer to iDevice customers, but again, they don't.

So if you don't like the way Apple does business, vote with your wallet and simply buy your stuff somewhere else.

What is stopping Apple from preventing those other book vendors - Amazon, for example, releasing books on any topic on the iPad as well? Of course you could download it from elsewhere on a non-Apple computer (god forbid you taint an iMac with such FILTH!), and email it to yourself. But then you might not be able to open it up in Page because it could do a word scan and block out any words they consider offensive to the little Baby Jesus.

I don't see why Apple has seemingly decided of late that it is the Guardian of all that is wholesome and good (feel free to buy violent hollywood blockbusters from the iTunes store though..). I'd understand a little more if the material in question was anything more than what you can probably buy in the relevant section of a high street bookshop, but I doubt that.

I personally find "no-one made you buy an iPad" to sound a bit Apple fanboi, especially when followed by

Easy, huh?

. I like lots of what Apple does, and how they do it - that doesn't mean they should be free from question or criticism.

 

[Bremen]

The fanboi card has now been played.... all serious discussion has ended....

 

[iPadCharlie]

What is stopping Apple from preventing those other book vendors - Amazon, for example, releasing books on any topic on the iPad as well?

The point is that Apple is NOT preventing Amazon from selling whatever they want to whomever they want. If there is a Kindle version available, I can read it via the Kindle app on my iPad.

The iPad is a piece of hardware. If I want to use a "pornographic" image as my wallpaper, there is nothing Apple can do about it. On the other hand, iBooks is an application that is tied directly to Apple. I can not buy certain books from iBooks, so what? But there is nothing, absolutely nothing preventing me from buying anything I want from any other ebook seller and reading it on my iPad... as long as there is an app for it.