The Flash Debate

[SweetPoison]

I don't know if I would call it whining, but comments such as this are getting old: "What's not to understand, the web browser on the iPad is a half-assed browser without flash"



Michael

Could you imagine if they told us how they really feel?

 

[pallentx]

Maybe I'm just too old for this whole thing, but when I started using the internet, there was now www, no HTML and no Web-browsers...
We used Veronica and Gopher for searching, etc.
Anyway, I find Flash etc. just too distracting. I want to retrieve information when I access the web. And I don't want moving graphics.
For me, my iPad is a tool to do so. I want to do it safely, I don't want to risk the integrity of my data. Therefore, Flash is an absolute No-Go for me.
I suppose it may be different for some people who are more into toys.

Flash is a lot more than "moving graphics". It's a complete development platform. My company has a web application built entirely in flash - built specifically for retrieving complex geospatial data in multiple layers, calculated in the fly from prebuilt mathematical models. It works very well and our customers love it. Because flash is cross-platform our users can run the app if they are on Linux, Macs, Windows, using Opera, Safari, IE, or any other browser that supports a flash plug-in.

 

[pallentx]

I think we're all willing to move on if someone didn't start a thread on this subject almost every day.

haha, yes, I keep telling myself that I'm not going to say anything else about flash, but I keep getting sucked back in

 

[SweetPoison]

I think we're all willing to move on if someone didn't start a thread on this subject almost every day.

haha, yes, I keep telling myself that I'm not going to say anything else about flash, but I keep getting sucked back in

You sure do! I think I will go start a thread....

 

[RAC]

Just a friendly reminder to keep it...um friendly.

Oh, and not having Flash annoys me about once a day - it's usually tech blogs and stuff and they should know better.

I was hoping to to get a simple answer and avoid wading through the previous heated and not very informative debates. Call that laziness if you like.

I bought the iPad as an instant web access device that sits on the coffee table and only needs recharging once or twice a week. I was oblivious to the Flash issue until I found that some web sites wouldn't work and only found out why when I fired up my PC.

I still don't understand why the iPad doesn't have Flash and wish that it did. I also don't understand why the debate gets so heated.

 

[Lobbydog]

Guru

Approx. 5000 (and increasing) new Flash-websites are hitting the net everyday. It's a big shame that iPad users can't view Flash sites. I have never had any sort of problems watching Flash sites on my Mac.

 

[chisaki]

Do you have the iPad?

Yes, I'm looking at an iPad right now. I do like my iPad but I don't attempt to use it for browsing the web. For the things I do use it for, it works well and I'm happy with it. I knew about the no flash issue before I bought and I did not buy it to surf the web.

The point is that "Jobs said" the iPad is the ultimate web browsing tool. He was wrong, without flash it is a half-assed web browser tool.

 

[Tinman]

Here is a point of view from an Adobe Flash Developer:
An Adobe Flash developer on why the iPad can’t use Flash — RoughlyDrafted Magazine

Seems to me some of you would not like what you are asking for.

I’m biased. I’m a full-time Flash developer and I’d love to get paid to make Flash sites for iPad. I want that to make sense—but it doesn’t. Flash on the iPad will not (and should not) happen—and the main reason, as I see it, is one that never gets talked about: Current Flash sites could never be made work well on any touchscreen device, and this cannot be solved by Apple, Adobe, or magical new hardware.
That’s not because of slow mobile performance, battery drain or crashes. It’s because of the hover or mouseover problem.
Many (if not most) current Flash games, menus, and even video players require a visible mouse pointer. They are coded to rely on the difference between hovering over something (mouseover) vs. actually clicking. This distinction is not rare. It’s pervasive, fundamental to interactive design, and vital to the basic use of Flash content. New Flash content designed just for touchscreens can be done, but people want existing Flash sites to work. All of them—not just some here and there—and in a usable manner. That’s impossible no matter what.
All that Apple and Adobe could ever do is make current Flash content visible. It would be seen, but very often would not work. Users would hate that broken promise much more than they hate gaps in pages, missing banner ads, and the need to download a game once from the App Store instead of re-downloading it every time they visit a Flash game page....

 

[Lobbydog]

Well, the point is Tinman -Flash works like a dream on Android 2.2 devices.

 

[pallentx]

Here is a point of view from an Adobe Flash Developer:
An Adobe Flash developer on why the iPad can’t use Flash — RoughlyDrafted Magazine

Seems to me some of you would not like what you are asking for.

I’m biased. I’m a full-time Flash developer and I’d love to get paid to make Flash sites for iPad. I want that to make sense—but it doesn’t. Flash on the iPad will not (and should not) happen—and the main reason, as I see it, is one that never gets talked about: Current Flash sites could never be made work well on any touchscreen device, and this cannot be solved by Apple, Adobe, or magical new hardware.
That’s not because of slow mobile performance, battery drain or crashes. It’s because of the hover or mouseover problem.
Many (if not most) current Flash games, menus, and even video players require a visible mouse pointer. They are coded to rely on the difference between hovering over something (mouseover) vs. actually clicking. This distinction is not rare. It’s pervasive, fundamental to interactive design, and vital to the basic use of Flash content. New Flash content designed just for touchscreens can be done, but people want existing Flash sites to work. All of them—not just some here and there—and in a usable manner. That’s impossible no matter what.
All that Apple and Adobe could ever do is make current Flash content visible. It would be seen, but very often would not work. Users would hate that broken promise much more than they hate gaps in pages, missing banner ads, and the need to download a game once from the App Store instead of re-downloading it every time they visit a Flash game page....

yep that is definitely an issue - there are ways around it (tap-hold, gestures, etc), but not with the elegance Apple is going to want. There's the option of partial support - the way windows mobile did with Flash-lite. All that makes sense about why flash is complicated on the iPad. So, just say its too difficult to do on the iPad. Dont go on a campaign trying to make everyone hate flash. Its not Flash's fault the iPad cant handle that kind of web content. Its not Flash's fault Apple didnt opt for a wacom stylus that would allow for hover capabilities. Its not Flash's fault the processor is marginally too slow to handle it. Flash has its issues, but it doesnt work on the iPad because of the iPad, not flash. I'm not saying flash is perfect and the most wonderful thing to hit the internet, but its been around at least 10 yrs - why is it suddenly the devil?

 

[Tinman]

Well, the point is Tinman -Flash works like a dream on Android 2.2 devices.

Like a dream? C'mon... it doesn't work "like a dream" on my brand new PC... hardly gonna be like that on a mobile device with a fraction of the power. And in fact I have seen it on an Android 2.2 device and it wasn't even close to "like a dream."

Let's not exaggerate here to make a point.



Michael

 

[kevbo]

Well, the point is Tinman -Flash works like a dream on Android 2.2 devices.

Like a dream? C'mon... it doesn't work "like a dream" on my brand new PC... hardly gonna be like that on a mobile device with a fraction of the power. And in fact I have seen it on an Android 2.2 device and it wasn't even close to "like a dream."

Let's not exaggerate here to make a point.



Michael

On devices with 1ghz processors and 512mb of RAM, it does work pretty well. I had a Droid and it wasn't so good, but my Droid X handles it with no issues. As far as I know, the A4 processor is faster than the Snapdragon (i think). A page that is heavy on Flash will slow down the browser a little bit, so I set plugins to "on demand" so it doesn't run unless I need it (and click on it). Easy enough. I'm a news junky so Flash videos are important.I've yet to find a way to get live feeds as well.. Maybe youtube will fix that.

 

[SweetPoison]

Let's not exaggerate here to make a point.



Michael

Lol!

 

[robertlc]

Weren't we all going to "move on" a couple of pages ago?

 

[iPadCharlie]

Weren't we all going to "move on" a couple of pages ago?

Now don't start bringing facts into this "debate", you'll ruin everything!