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No more iPads?

NYHorsewoman

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idave23 said:
And the American consumer's demand to have the latest and greatest version of each device at the cheapest price plays no role either I suppose.

Cheapest price!?! I think Apple products are incredibly expensive! I can get 2 fully featured Windows laptops for the cost of one iPad! Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my iPad and haven't touched my laptop since I got the iPad, but I think Apple products are way overpriced! My 2 cents.
 

Kaykaykay

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Cheapest price!?! I think Apple products are incredibly expensive! I can get 2 fully featured Windows laptops for the cost of one iPad! Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my iPad and haven't touched my laptop since I got the iPad, but I think Apple products are way overpriced! My 2 cents.

iPad prices are actually hard to beat. That's why competitors have had trouble delivering comparable tablet functionality for less.

You might prefer to pay less, but that doesn't make them overpriced in the marketplace.

Adding link for perspective:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/24/technology/apples-lower-prices-are-all-part-of-the-plan.html?_r=1
 
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Seadog

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No, Apple is not cheap, but they deliver a higher value product for less than their competition can afford to sell at. Complaining about Apple products is like complaining that you cannot buy a Lexus for the same price as a Yugo. The highest cost of owning any Apple mobile device, is usually due to telephone company fees. And these fees are universal. They are the same with any manufacturer's device.
 

Mtnmedic

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Seadog said:
No, Apple is not cheap, but they deliver a higher value product for less than their competition can afford to sell at. Complaining about Apple products is like complaining that you cannot buy a Lexus for the same price as a Yugo. The highest cost of owning any Apple mobile device, is usually due to telephone company fees. And these fees are universal. They are the same with any manufacturer's device.

Bingo.

Besides, I used to own a Yugo....bought it new and it was cheap. Not the fanciest style or interior but it got the job done. Very underrated little car that did very well in the winter. It got me 40mpg and ran for 231,000 miles before it gave up the ghost. The secret? Change the timing belt after the first 45,000 miles THEN as the manufacturer recommended. The stock one was crap. This, in part, lead to why the Yugo became a "throwaway" car so early in its life.

Michael "Spam, spam, bacon, eggs and spam. Hold the bacon and eggs." Sent from my iPad 2 using iPF
 

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It's only in china, rest of the world will have.

But for some reason, norway doesn't have priority for istuff by apple-.- was lucky to get the next to last black ipad 2 32gb wifi the other day. all other shops in my region/county was empty of it-.-
 

idave23

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NYHorsewoman said:
Cheapest price!?! I think Apple products are incredibly expensive! I can get 2 fully featured Windows laptops for the cost of one iPad! Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my iPad and haven't touched my laptop since I got the iPad, but I think Apple products are way overpriced! My 2 cents.

My point wasn't that Apple devices ARE cheap. Point was that we WANT them cheap no matter what Apple has to do to accomplish that. If that means pressuring suppliers to the point of paying their employees slave wages, so be it. I think some of the comments in this thread are testament to that.
 
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Seadog

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You can also look at it from the perspective, that while Asian workers make a lot less than Europe and American workers, the alternative for them is a lot worse. Foxcoon employees enjoy a very good lifestyle compared to Apple's competitor's factories. And they enjoy a very good pay, compared to their fellow countrymen. Look at the average American wages today, compared to just after WW2. Then look at home prices, cars, and other staples. I can remember in the 60's getting hamburger and hotdogs at $0.10/lb, and a glass of soda at the drug store for a nickle. I only got $1/month for an allowance, but I was also only 10.
 

tlbaker

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Billee said:
Easy way out, change the name. MaxiPad?

They were calling it that when iPad 1 first launched. ;)

Sent from my Verizon Black 64GB iPad 2 With IOS 5.01 Update From NYC using iPF
 

idave23

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Seadog said:
You can also look at it from the perspective, that while Asian workers make a lot less than Europe and American workers, the alternative for them is a lot worse. Foxcoon employees enjoy a very good lifestyle compared to Apple's competitor's factories. And they enjoy a very good pay, compared to their fellow countrymen. Look at the average American wages today, compared to just after WW2. Then look at home prices, cars, and other staples. I can remember in the 60's getting hamburger and hotdogs at $0.10/lb, and a glass of soda at the drug store for a nickle. I only got $1/month for an allowance, but I was also only 10.

Not a big fan of the let-them-eat-cake or well-it-could-be-worse argument for the treatment of workers. It's kinda like saying the worker breathing coal dust has a very good life compared to the one breathing asbestos. In the end they both die a needlessly premature death. And just because that avenue is available to Apple and Foxconn, or any of these companies for that matter, doesn't excuse them for using it, especially when profits are so high. There's a study out there that found that Apple workers in South Korea make something like $34 per iPad unit sold compared to $8 for Chinese workers. Meaning I think that that's the percentage of the cost of each iPad that goes towards labor in the respective countries. If true it clearly shows that Apple is paying it's China workforce comparative peanuts just because it can.
 
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Seadog

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Apple is under fire because they are making money and the labor unions cannot stand it. The unions want all production under their dominance, just like every governor wants it in their state, every mayor wants as much as he can get in his city. They want to replace the greed of Chinese manufacturers and politicians, with their greed. So those with an agenda are attacking Apple for using Chinese labor, even when they know, or should know, that it is impossible to meet the needs of a company like Apple, Dell, or HP in the US or any other nation with a independent mindset among the working population.

It is not how much the workers make in $US, but what it does to the standard of living. What most people do not realize is that you cannot say this is a valid wage and this is not. Workers around my part of the country make a living at $10-$14 starting wages. You go to many other parts of the country and those wages are not enough to survive on. If you were to demand that X workers would have to be paid wages comparable to those in cities like New York or Los Angeles, the price of everthing would skyrocket to where those not making those wages would be priced out of a living. There is a fallacy with the concept of a minimum wage that allows for a decent living. It does not take into account that when the local economy is depressed, those companies with a need to hire, will pay a going wage. If the local economy is booming, the local companies will pay more, because it takes more to attract good workers. If you raise the going wage to above a level that the local economy can support, businesses will usually close. It is not any use in raising the product price if no one can afford it. Another problem with minimum wages is that politicians often want to raise it for popular consumption. The price of new hires goes up, but the workers that have experience are suddenly being hurt. The wage increases, causes products to increase to compensate. Anyone making above minimum wage have their buying power reduced. It also is morale issue for those who are being usurped.

The workers in China are much like the young men and women that became the forefront of our efforts during WW2. They both were mostly from rural agriculture areas where there were no jobs, and little money. Not much of a future for them. They are recruited/enlisted by the government to go far from their homes to work long hard hours at a wage that seems enormous for the times. They all worked in conditions that seemed reasonable for the times and place. And often better than they were used to. Women were treated more like equals than they ever had. To those involved, their lives are forever changed, but in the long run, in a postive way.

The suicides at Foxconn are more than likely related to being homesick than any mistreatment. The working conditions are not such that would be acceptable in the US, but usually better than what they experienced gowing up. And a large portion of the workers are support family back 'on the farm'. And yet, so many of these people manage to make enough that they can afford to buy iPhones and iPads. They consider it worth a lot more to them than we do. It is mentioned the wage difference between China and Korea. In China, it is necessary for Foxconn to feed and shelter the workers. I doubt that the same conditions apply in Korea. And Korea is a huge industrialized nation that is further along than China in worker saturation. Worker saturation is what causes wages to go up, and it is happening to China now. A lot of companies are looking to move out of China because of worker saturation. These companies are the usual ones that get by with exploiting workers, not the ones like Apple.
 

jduncan

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Heck, what is with these guys over there?! They already have our jobs making the darn things!
 

Kaykaykay

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I think companies generally do what they can get away with. Apple is not doing anyone any favors by employing Chinese. If they could get a better deal elsewhere, they would. I mean both Apple and the workers. Unfortunately for the workers, they live in a country where the circumstances force people into terrible jobs for lack of better options. It's often easier for a blue-collar laborer to make more than college graduates in China:

China
 

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Seadog said:
Apple is under fire because they are making money and the labor unions cannot stand it. The unions want all production under their dominance, just like every governor wants it in their state, every mayor wants as much as he can get in his city. They want to replace the greed of Chinese manufacturers and politicians, with their greed. So those with an agenda are attacking Apple for using Chinese labor, even when they know, or should know, that it is impossible to meet the needs of a company like Apple, Dell, or HP in the US or any other nation with a independent mindset among the working population.

It is not how much the workers make in $US, but what it does to the standard of living. What most people do not realize is that you cannot say this is a valid wage and this is not. Workers around my part of the country make a living at $10-$14 starting wages. You go to many other parts of the country and those wages are not enough to survive on. If you were to demand that X workers would have to be paid wages comparable to those in cities like New York or Los Angeles, the price of everthing would skyrocket to where those not making those wages would be priced out of a living. There is a fallacy with the concept of a minimum wage that allows for a decent living. It does not take into account that when the local economy is depressed, those companies with a need to hire, will pay a going wage. If the local economy is booming, the local companies will pay more, because it takes more to attract good workers. If you raise the going wage to above a level that the local economy can support, businesses will usually close. It is not any use in raising the product price if no one can afford it. Another problem with minimum wages is that politicians often want to raise it for popular consumption. The price of new hires goes up, but the workers that have experience are suddenly being hurt. The wage increases, causes products to increase to compensate. Anyone making above minimum wage have their buying power reduced. It also is morale issue for those who are being usurped.

The workers in China are much like the young men and women that became the forefront of our efforts during WW2. They both were mostly from rural agriculture areas where there were no jobs, and little money. Not much of a future for them. They are recruited/enlisted by the government to go far from their homes to work long hard hours at a wage that seems enormous for the times. They all worked in conditions that seemed reasonable for the times and place. And often better than they were used to. Women were treated more like equals than they ever had. To those involved, their lives are forever changed, but in the long run, in a postive way.

The suicides at Foxconn are more than likely related to being homesick than any mistreatment. The working conditions are not such that would be acceptable in the US, but usually better than what they experienced gowing up. And a large portion of the workers are support family back 'on the farm'. And yet, so many of these people manage to make enough that they can afford to buy iPhones and iPads. They consider it worth a lot more to them than we do. It is mentioned the wage difference between China and Korea. In China, it is necessary for Foxconn to feed and shelter the workers. I doubt that the same conditions apply in Korea. And Korea is a huge industrialized nation that is further along than China in worker saturation. Worker saturation is what causes wages to go up, and it is happening to China now. A lot of companies are looking to move out of China because of worker saturation. These companies are the usual ones that get by with exploiting workers, not the ones like Apple.

When in doubt, blame the unions. As simplistic as your knowledge if China.
 

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