iPad Mini obsolete already?

Discussion in 'iPad Mini Forum' started by lecycliste, Oct 23, 2012.

  1. scifan57
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    scifan57 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The resolution of a retina display is a result of the high pixel count and pixel density of the display, not the scanning rate.
    Could you please quote your source for the information in your post?
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
  2. Appleipaduser
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    Appleipaduser iPF Novice

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    The scanning I refer to is discussed below in a USAToday article:

    "With so many pixels comes the opportunity for interference,
    when "signals get crossed and image quality suffers." Apple says that in order
    to make sure that the iPad screen remained crystal clear, its engineers
    "elevated the pixels onto a different plane — separating them from the signals.
    It's technology that's breakthrough. Just like the new iPad itself."

    That's Apple's marketing department telling us the magical
    things the company had to do to incorporate a Retina Display.
    "

    How Apple got a Retina display on new iPad
  3. scifan57
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    scifan57 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    There's nothing in that article about double scanning anything to get the Retina type resolution.
  4. lecycliste
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    lecycliste iPF Novice

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    Resolution comes from pixel density, not the scan rate. However, scan rate does have to be faster for more pixels in the same frame. That's because you need to display a full screen or video frame in the same amount of time, regardless of how many pixels there are. Some examples:

    720p HD TV has 720 lines of 1280 pixels in each frame, displaying 59.94 frames per second. That becomes a pixel rate of 720 * 1280 * 59.94 = 55.24 Mp/s.

    At higher 1080P resolution, each frame has 1080 lines of 1920 pixels, and again 59.94 frames display every second. This is a pixel rate of 1080 * 1920 * 59.94 = 124.29 Mp/s.

    So 1080p requires 2.25 times the pixel scan rate of 720p.

    Similarly, the iPhone 4S with 860 x 640 pixels per frame requires 4 times the pixel scan rate of the iPhone 3GS, which has 480 x 320 pixels per frame.

    So no, screen resolution has nothing to do with pixel scan rate. However, high-resolution screens with higher pixel counts require faster scan rates.

    SOURCES:

    Resolution and scan rate data for HDTV comes from Wikipedia, via NTSC and ATSC standards. Apple screen resolution is from Zooming in on Apple's high-density Retina displays | Digital Trends.

    The calculations and comparisons are from my understanding of analog and digital displays. I designed analog and mixed signal chips for 25 years for National Semiconductor, AMD, PMI / Analog Devices, Micro Linear, and Linear Technology. I hold three patents in analog design, two of them in analog signal synthesis and one in op amp design.

    So I know a little bit about this stuff. ;>]
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
  5. Appleipaduser
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    Appleipaduser iPF Novice

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    Agree! Thanks for the info!
  6. Wakawaka
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    Wakawaka iPad Junkie

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    I love the ipad/iphone toys.

    But I'm not one that buys such toys for their full use. I don't need a "life remote" like android seems to try and do. I just need/want something easy to use with email, reading news, weather check, youtube and photos. I'm 26.
  7. Kaykaykay
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    Kaykaykay iPad Wizard

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    I know what you mean. At least that's what I'm trying to convince myself after having watched this and developed device lust for this new model, despite my Galaxy Note original 5" still working well, lol:



    The bummer is, there are just enough new features that I could see myself using.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2014
  8. MattIM
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    MattIM Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I just got home from east side Best Buy, here in Fort Wayne. They only had black Mini wifi 32GIG. All the white Minis sold out by 8:30am, when the store opened. I spent a good 30 minutes holding it and opening and closing apps. It is thin, the screen was large the longer sides were closer to the edge than the shorter ends. My hands are pretty average men's hands but I can tell that it is easier to thumb type on it than my larger iPad. A young man walked up as I was looking at it, and he started asking me questions about the Mini. I told him that what I know was from what I've read and the fact that it was a smaller version of the iPad, which I am very familiar. His parents gave him a Kindle Fire for school and it is not meeting his needs for classes. They were going to buy him the iPad but he thought the Mini would be better.

    I told him I attend a class at IPFW (Indiana Purdue Fort Wayne University) and I use my iPad for that class and the Mini would be too small for me to use in class. He thought the same too. He attends IPFW as well. He indicated that a lot of students carried tablets to class. Most have iPads because most teachers and their assistants use iPads and it is easier for them to figure out a tech problem on an iPad than on another non-iPad tablet. Since my class only has ten students I think we all use iPads.

    I told this student that I was hoping to get a Verizon Mini and use it as a hotspot. Standing by, listening to our conversation was the Best Buy associate and he piped in and said that they have not yet received any Mini 4G models but should be delivered towards the end of November. By then I should have my Kindle Fire HD 8.9 4G tablet. I need to stay far away from Best Buy as it is too tempting to break down and buy the Mini. Thank goodness they didn't have the 4G version or there would have been a serious dent on my credit card!
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2012
  9. lecycliste
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    lecycliste iPF Novice

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    Matt, why would an iPad Mini be too small to use in class?

    Is it that much tougher to type on, or to see what's displayed with the smaller size?
  10. lecycliste
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    lecycliste iPF Novice

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    When I started this thread, I posted what I thought were built-in obsolescent flaws of the announced iPad Mini. Since then, I've watched posts here and online - pro and con - about the new Mini.

    My main beefs still are that the Mini uses obsolete technology in the processor and screen. For a photographer, it lacks sufficient resolution for critical examination of digital photographs. Even worse is that Apple already has access to more advanced processor and screen technology, and uses them in other iPads. That makes me think even more that Apple is using consumer's loyalty to their products to profit from obsolete technology in the 1st generation iPad Mini.

    It's OK to make a profit. But my engineering sensibilities tell me to make the best possible product you can with the best available technology and sell it for a fair price.

    So I'm following SJ Mercury News columnist Troy Wolverton's advice to hold off until the next generation iPad Mini, which should have the missing features long about next March. I agree with Wolverton - if you don't have a crashing need, you should wait.

    I'm more tempted by the refurbished 3rd generation iPad at $379 for 16GB WiFi. That's just $50 more than the obsolete iPad Mini.
  11. MattIM
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    MattIM Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I think it would be too small to view the class materials on a Mini. I use my iPad in class and I often wish of was a little bit larger so I can see a larger page size. So I'm thinking a Mini would further reduce the image.
  12. AQ_OC
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    AQ_OC Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Could be a personal choice thing. You may still find that reading on the mini to be useful just for the extra portability. It does take some getting used to after living with a retina display for 7-8 months.
  13. MattIM
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    MattIM Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Definitely personal choice. Most of the students in my class are well over 30 years old--most of us work, we have one graduate student attending, I think he is over 25? During class I notice all of us doing a lot of pinching outwards, when a new process flow chart is presented with itty bitty side bars explaining the point. BTW the grad student started class with an Android tablet and he switched to an iPad 3. I wonder if he'll have buyer's remorse?
  14. AQ_OC
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    AQ_OC Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I give presentations on my iPad 3 all the time and love having the ability to pinch to zoom in/out and reposition things on screen. Works way better than a laptop.
  15. MattIM
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    MattIM Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Here I thought I had a new friend! And it's same same ole friend AC! You are a Panda now? The fat Carmen Miranda was fun, the Burning Pumpkin was downright scary!

    Yes, pinch to zoom is so much easier than using a mouse to zoom in or out. Talk about obsolete, a laptop being carried around to class--that is getting rare on my campus.
  16. s2mikey
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    s2mikey iPad Addict

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    I agree. The mini just seems rushed out to battle the rest of the smaller tablets out there. That's fine and as always apple will sell a ton of them. But, that doesn't excuse the fact that they basically took whatever old parts were lying around from the iPad2 heyday and just slapped it together using that stuff. I also believe that the price is out of line. $299 should get you a 32gb version at the very least. And, $379 buys me an iPad 3 which is very intriguing as you pointed out. We were gonna get one of these for my youngest for Christmas but I think the iPod touch is a better value and she'll like it more.

    iPad2 32GB WiFi / iOS 6.0
  17. Martinbowden
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    Martinbowden iPF Novice

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    They had to keep ipad mini within a price range to keep inline with other 7" tablets on the market



    QUOTE=lecycliste;696873]The debut iPad Mini looks like it was released just in time to kill Android tablet Christmas sales.

    I won't say 'rushed'. Apple never rushes anything, they just sweat their engineers harder than anyone else. But the iPad Mini is missing some obvious features Apple already has in-house to make it an Android tablet killer.

    The next iPad Mini will have a Retina display, a major omission from the debut model. Look at photographs on a 3rd generation iPad Retina display versus an iPad 2, and you'll understand why pro photographers must have the 3rd generation device. The higher resolution makes an impressive difference in just shadow detail alone.

    The next iPad Mini will also have a low-power A6 processor and / or a battery with higher capacity per unit volume. Apple will want to use its latest high-performance processor, but will need more power to run it in a smaller volume. It's either that or redesign the A6 CPU to use less power.

    The power issue is why Apple didn't use the A6 in the iPad Mini. As an operations guy with an engineering degree, Tim Cook understands this very well. He also listened to his marketing people, who told him to get out a better direct competitor to Android tablets soon, since the e-reader market is headed to a 7 inch form factor.

    Did Apple blow it with a 'premature' product launch?

    No - the company simply left room for an iPad Mini development path.

    Should you wait to get one?

    No - you'll miss the productivity the debut model offers if you wait.[/QUOTE]
  18. AQ_OC
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    AQ_OC Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Apple didn't offer a retina display and the a6 processor simply because that technology is not yet available to allow them to meet their goals for this product at the price that makes sense. I'm sure they know that a retina screen is what every one wants.

    I've been using hard for over 12 hours and I still have 19% battery left. A retina display would kill that. Both that and an a6 processor would force them to use a large battery and then this device would not be light and thin and still get this long battery life (according to Engadget, the mini has the longest battery of any tablet ever made).

    Yes, I want a retina display and an a6. But that device is to the mini as the iPad 3 is to the iPad 2. I think had they released that device this year it would be heavier and everyone would be moaning about how hot it gets.

    Consumers, on the whole, are a fickle bunch.
  19. s2mikey
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    s2mikey iPad Addict

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    But don't the battery issues and heat problems also happen to the iPad 3 and 4?. Why would those things pertain only to the mini if it had the retina display?

    iPad2 32GB WiFi / iOS 6.0
  20. AQ_OC
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    ???

    Who said those things only pertain to the mini?

    That's the whole point. If you put an retina display on this device, presumably with a 2048x1539 screen (introducing yet a new resolution means additional work for developers, so history suggests this won't happen), then you need a larger battery to drive it. And you need an a6 processor to power it. Thus, it's thermal characteristics shift toward those of the iPad 3/4. Might even be worse since the surface area is smaller. The device would take on a different character. The smaller but denser screen (326ppi) , the A6x processor, and the larger battery all drive the cost up and in exchange the device becomes heavier with worse thermal characteristics. Yeah, it would have the specs that everyone loves, but at a price. And we know phones have that kind of ppi, but not all this surface area (well, the nexus 10 has 300ppi, but it gets stomped by the iPad 4 -- and the screen is not as good as what Apple delivers). What are yields like at that size?

    Staying with the A5 and a 1024x768 display results in a huge battery life and so far, a cool device. I will do some testing to see how much it heats up. So far, I haven't noticed any warming, but I can't say I've driven it hard except for testing some games.

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