iPad Mini obsolete already?

Discussion in 'iPad Mini Forum' started by lecycliste, Oct 23, 2012.

  1. Treborray
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    Treborray iPF Novice

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    I was thinking about doing the same. Even though I hate to admit that I want the newest device.
  2. AQ_OC
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    AQ_OC Super Moderator Staff Member

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    We will see. There are lots of people in the world and it is hard to get a feel for who is buying or not buying. I have had people call me asking about the mini who previously seemed to have little interest in the iPad. But they are attracted by the mini. And these folks will pay that price because they have funds and the know the apple brand and trust it.

    The other side of this coin is that amazon is only interested in selling $200 tablets so they can push their content. Same with Google. If they don't end up selling enough content, then the days of the cheap tablet will be over. These companies have to turn a profit sooner or later, especially Google.
  3. ipadder474
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    ipadder474 iPad Fan

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    I was reading last night that Samsung posted a sales of 7.8 billion dollars and it said much of the sales were on their new phones and the Galaxy tablets. I spoke with the in house Apple sales employee in my local Best Buy, I told him that in reading the iPad forum that many our shocked at the new mini iPads price. Also many who just bought a new iPad3 are really P.Oed at now finding a iPad4 is here. Maybe Apple does not think these items are a deal killer for people planing to buy new tablets and computers this coming Holiday, but many experts "and I am not including myself in this group" they are not betting it's going to be a great Holiday for Apple.
    On another subject I read where Best Buy is banking on Microsoft's new Windows 8 is going to really make their poor sales performance become a thing of the past, I also read where some experts are not thinking the same. Lots of iPad sales happen at Best Buy and they are fighting for their lives today. If Best Buy does not have a great Holiday in sales, I think they will follow Circuit City and Comp-USA in going belly up. Then their is Google I don't think it is in anyone's best interest "HELLO APPLE" to get into a knock down fight with. It's just a fight they can't win and can't afford to keep fighting with. Again I am no expert just someone who owns a iPad2 "not upgraded to date" and a Mac book Pro. Also two Samsung Galaxy tablets and a Kindal Fire. I have no dog in this fight I am just looking at what everyone is doing and wondering where will it all end up.
  4. AQ_OC
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    AQ_OC Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I think we pretty much are all doing the same as you....looking to see what will happen. For a lot of this stuff, there is not a lot of history to look back at to see how the future will be, so each new change brings a new set of dynamics. I think one reason Apple brought the 4th gen Apple out like this is because they are feeling pressure from the Droiders. With Samsung and a host of others always bringing out new products all through the year, it makes Apple look slow to respond and many start to question their ability to lead the pack. They say apple is not keeping up, is getting behind, because there are a lot of Droiders trying this and that to make themselves stand out. It's hard to be on the top of a pack like that. And as soon as Apple responds to the noise, they get dinged by folks for making their stuff obsolete. Honestly, there is nothing they can do to avoid POing someone.

    I would say that the people who buy a Kindle Fire are, on the whole, not likely to be the same people to buy Apples or Samsung products. The Kindle is a pure consumption device, meant to drive people to spend money on Amazon. Google tried to create a similar thing with the Nexus 7. Samsung makes more general purpose tablets, like their Galaxy Note 10.1, which has productivity features built in. Not designed to compete with Kindle. And neither is the Mini or the iPad 4. At least apple didn't try to compete on the low end and have left room for competition. In fact, on Monday Google is set to announce the Google Nexus 10, with a resolution higher than that of iPad.
  5. ipadder474
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    ipadder474 iPad Fan

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    I bought my first jump into tablets with my Kindal Fire, bought before buying my iPad2 I only use it to store pictures on today, and hardly even use it. One of the items I have found is there is a lot more user App's at the Google Play Store then I find at the Apple Store. And many of the App's at the Google Play Store are "FREE" and many of the others are in the $1.99 area. I find many high priced App's at the Apple store. Take the News Stand at the Apple Store, I don't see USA Today or CNET also no NBC News. I can't even search the Apple Store like I can the Google Play Store.
    Another item that really bothers me is if I want my music files to move from my computer I must use Apples Itune's. With my Android Tablets, I can just use their USB interface to transfer the files direct from computer to Tablet. With my iPad2 it's not that simple.
    I still feel Apple is making a BIG mistake in not having (1) a USB interface (2) a Micro memory slot. These two items I and many others wish were on the iPads.
    The Market is where people cast their vote's with their money, so time will soon tell what happens.
    When speaking to my local Apple guy in my local Best Buy and brought up the higher price of the new Mini IPad. What he first said is just look at the material of the iPads housing, The Androids are plastic "plastic is a name that is far outdated today" and replied our iPad housings are made of solid aluminum. Well a lot of really strong items are today made with "Non Metal Material and I have seen a lot of all metal items that have failed. So this item he was using to justify the higher cost, does not impress me. Myself I would have just said Apple has better engineering. Oh well.
  6. AQ_OC
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    AQ_OC Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, I don't see a need to discuss the diffs and pro/cons of apple vs android, this has been said many many times before. Just remember that the iPad came out in 2010 with no slots and no usb and that hasn't stopped anything. Apple is well known for the type of engineering they do, that is just how they are. Many others have followed suit on that score. Windows laptops have improved greatly over the last few years due to Apple influence. Apple is not going to change how they do things and their success tells them they don't need to.

    But we have many choices today. if you want usb and slots on a tablet, you can have that. I have Android tablets and well as Apple tablets. They don't need to be the same. Oh, and there are other ways besides iTunes to get content to your Apple. You might find it fun to explore some of them.
  7. ipadder474
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    ipadder474 iPad Fan

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    Well I don't see you disputing the App. items not found or the amount of App's at the Apple Store I posted about. But that's just a fact anyone looking at what they both offer can see it for themselves. And you post "You might find it fun to explore some of them." I had the idea by posting in this iPad forum I just might get some help and direction, without my exploring and exploring what?
  8. Kaykaykay
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    Kaykaykay iPad Wizard

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    I'm a fan of slots and USB support, too, but don't expect them from Apple.

    Apple has huge profit margins, so it's not a matter of it commanding high prices because of the materials it uses. It sets those prices because the market will bear it for Apple's combination of hardware and ecosystem.

    Apple does generally make solid devices, but so do other makers, and plastic isn't a prob if used appropriately.

    Let's face it, with tech gadgets, the hardware is outliving the firmware and we're all dumping gadgets and trading up because we want better features, not because the hardware has given out, in most cases.

    I have a boxful of obsolete tech gadgets, including ones made out of plastic (like my old Palm Pilot), and they're in perfect physical condition all these years later. I don't need tech gadgets that will maintain physical integrity for decades, because I don't expect to use them that long. None of us do.
  9. AQ_OC
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    AQ_OC Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I didn't see the need as it has been discussed over and over. I have a ton of Android apps...and I will tell you about free apps...the all come with ads...and I hate them. I'd rather pay $2 and get no ads...and these days there are "in app purchases", these aren't so bad, but if you can get the main app for free and then have to do an IAP before you can do anything else, I'd rather just pay. I use a lot of apps, too, on both devices. For the tablet, the iOS side is better. I could not even run Navigon on my Google Nexus 7, due to some issue that have no idea about. Also, could not run Smart Tools on it at first, but I wrote the developer and he was nice enough to make it work. I've not had problems like that on iOS.

    As for the other part, you have to ask questions to get responses, but it seems there are some more things you can learn regarding what can be done with iOS. The days of the wire are long passed.
  10. ipadder474
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    ipadder474 iPad Fan

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    I have upgraded three of my free App's to pay App's mainly I like supporting the people who write them. Seems the right thing to do. And I agree I will just keep wandering on. Thanks for your replies.
  11. ipadder474
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    ipadder474 iPad Fan

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    Oh yes just yesterday I again packed up a box of old Computer stuff and my six year old HP desktop computer "less the hard drive I never let any of my H.D.s go" and dropped them off at a local small home town computer store. Not the first time I have given them plenty of what I paid hundreds of dollars for just a few short years before. I have a bunch of digital cameras in my safe. A Kodak 280 Canon G5 G7 G10 G11 now a new G15. Also a Canon 50D 60D and a 7D hope these will be useful for a few more years.
    On the subject of Best Buy I have been in their silver rewards program for about four years. I just noticed a message in the rewards section addressed to me, it said "unless you buy $1,500 dollars more from Best Buy before the end of this calendar year I will lose my silver rewards status. "Oh!! My!!..My little World just came crashing down.
    I wanted to see the new Canon G15 a week ago at my local Best Buy, was told it would not be sold or seen until Oct.20 or 21 well I noticed it was being offered on Amazon.com with free shipping included,since I read the threat message and I feel Best Buy was threatening me I thought lets just buy the G15 from Amazon ordered it on a Friday was holding it on Monday and with the free shipping. In the past all my cameras and new T.V.s were bought at Best Buy. I also asked a while back about a Galaxy 10.1 note with 32gb memory, was told they only had the 16gb one. So back then I checked Amazon found a 32gb Galaxy 10.1 note with free shipping placed my order.
    My Apple guy told me it would be in November before I could even think of ordering the new iPad's. It just seems like a lot of people are shooting themselves in both foot and head.
    I forgot I had a Apple II sold it many years ago.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
  12. Appleipaduser
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    Hi everyone,

    I am sure it is obsolete technology since most of major components are over a year old but iPad mini has a very splendor design and it very hard to not go out and buy it! What is holding me back is the fact that it only has 1024 x 768 screen resolution and an A5 inside(2011). I'm set to buy it in the near future when Apple finally decides to make a model with a retina screen with a A6x inside it! Maybe it will be in March; June or even back to October. It depends on how Apple views the marketplace. But I think they could continue strong it they bring out the retina version ASAP to continue the momentum - hoping it will be in March - the traditional upgrade period for the iPad!

    Of course; if Apple delays this top end retina version; Microsoft/Google/Samsung, etc... will just step in and take over the momentum by producing a model with that specificiation in another OS!
  13. Beryl
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    Beryl iPad Fan

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    I'm an Amazon Prime customer who has lots of iDevices and looking forward to these announcements. I will be purchasing a smaller tablet and it will be either a Kindle, Nexus, or Mini.
  14. AQ_OC
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    AQ_OC Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The A5 is not obsolete technology. The chip is still be used on devices that are sold.

    If Apple has put an A6 or A6X and a retina screen on the iPad mini, there is no way it would have the battery life it will have. It would need more battery and would be heavier.

    If you don't want the mini, don't get the mini. That why there is an iPad 4 device. The reason to buy a Mini is because you want a more portable device.
  15. Appleipaduser
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    It maybe a bit heavier but you have to remember Apple already ported the iPad2 ->iPad mini so doing the same with the iPad4 -> iPad mini with retina should be the same technique as when Apple made the iPad3 a little bit thicker then the iPad2. The iPad mini with retina will be just a hair thicker. Plus, the size of the iPad mini with retina is only 60% size wise of the iPad full size. In add; the iPad mini has incorporated in it new screen technology called GF Dito reduces the thickness of the mini.

    The fact that the A5 is used; is not a good argument for this. Many devices still use obsolete chips which are ported to third world devices to get the device at affordable prices. For example; the 486 Intel CPU is still being used and it is almost 17 years old!

    The iPad4 is not what I want since it is too heavy and not portable enough for my use. I want to take my tablet everywhere and use it one handed if I desire. At .68 pound; it is perfect. iPad4 weighs in around 1.7?? lbs. I was first going to upgrade but the realize that I woudl be making the same error in judgement since I already have a full size tablet.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2012
  16. Seadog
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    Seadog Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I am very interested in the iPad mini. It is almost the exact size of a 2 DIN radio and I can see kits that would allow it to be used instead of $2000 navigation systems. I don't have a problem with the A5 being used, other than that will mean it will not support Siri. However, I would imagine the next model will be able to do so. I doubt that they are going to be too anxious for a retina screen, with all of the issues they have had with them. Apple, and other manufacturers, will have to start looking at new assembly technology. Success in the past has been due to cheap labor and young hands. They are seeing problems with the amount of parts being crammed into the new units. It could be that future assembly will require more machine assembly and result in production being relocated to other nations.
  17. AQ_OC
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    AQ_OC Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The iPad mini weighs less than half the iPad 3/4. Most of that weight reduction is using less battery. Also, the small size of the mini means less surface to dissipate heat, so if you run a retina screen on that if will likely get even warmer than the iPad 3 does when run hard. Also, the retina screen presents another problem. If you use the same pixel density as in the iPad 3/4, then you have an odd resolution, which Apple would rather not do that because developers would have to support that. If you keep 2048 x 1536, then you have to source a screen with that many pixels in a smaller area. That will drive the price through into the stratosphere. These are not simple engineering tasks.

    Apple is a master and knowing what they can deliver and when. I trust them to do what they think they can do and will not attempt to "backseat engineer" their designs. There are many choices for tablets these days.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2012
  18. AQ_OC
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    Actually, the iPad mini does support Siri. The theory now is that the reason iPad 2 doesn't is because it only has 512 MB ram....the guess is that the Mini will have 1 GB ram. We shall find out soon! :)
  19. lecycliste
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    lecycliste iPF Novice

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    Apple's iPhone 4 has double the screen resolution of the iPhone 3GS in the same size screen, and the 4's price was the same as the as-released price of the 3GS. It was no problem for Apple to do the engineering, and maintain acceptable battery life and heat dissipation.

    As a semiconductor design engineer and design manager for 25 years, I know the effects of smaller linewidth technology - you decrease all the parasitic capacitances, and it takes less current to run your logic at the same speed. The challenge comes when people expect faster circuits at lower power. I also fully expect more efficient LED backlighting to reduce screen power consumption. The A6 may actually be more power-efficient than the A5 or A5X processors.

    Also, you may see even more SoC (system on a chip) integration of everything in an iPad or iPhone. This reduces board space and cuts power, since you have fewer chip pins with power-hungry output buffers. With Apple's in-house chip design expertise, it's a matter of finding a foundry process with sufficiently-small linewidths / feature sizes.

    So I don't think Apple has too many engineering challenges in making a high-resolution iPad Mini. It would certainly make sense to build a 7.9-inch retina screen with the same resolution as the iPad 3 and 4, to use all those existing apps.

    No, I think this is a way to prolong the life of the product through an upgrade path to future higher-resolution, faster iPad Minis. Apple can certainly position it as a tablet computing tool, unlike the Kindle Fire HD and Nook HD dedicated media viewers with their substandard app selections. Apple may also be thinking ahead to a time when almost everyone who's going to buy a tablet has one, and most sales are upgrades. Then the longer the upgrade path, the better.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
  20. Appleipaduser
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    Well, it been said already but I will repeat it for you if you did not read all the posts here. An earlier post stated that that technique of doing a WUXGA in a smaller screen has been done in even a much smaller device by Apple called the iPhone4S and iPhone5. Heat should not be a problem since Apple is using two chips one for the processing input/output and a separate chip devote towards graphics which I believied is sandwich one on top of another! The high retina resolution is due to the rate of scanning; which Apple does a double scan to produce the retina type resolution.

    The weight and reduction in thickness is due mostly to using the GF Dito technology; not reducing the size of the battery!
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012

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