IPAD and Airport Express

[RonF30]

Can someone shed some light on this please?

Airport Express unit. Configured as AP only (Bridged). Connected directly to the HP 10/100 switch. Connect with sw and configure unit with WPA2 personal security.

Here is the problem:
Dell laptops (multiple) can connect and browse Windows server shares and internet no issues.
Ipads and Iphones will NOT work. They can connect to the Airport with full signal but they will not access Internet or app store.
The ipad is an AT&T early model and even with its cellular disabled, still no internet.

But - this Ipad works on other Linksys/Netgear home based WIFI's and work flawlessly, at the owners homes. (2 different)

I took the Airport home and connected, used my Ipad (v1) no cellular and it worked like it should have, flawlessly.

I understand the process of troubleshooting this but before I go thru all of this, is there a known issue or other known solution for this problem between this Ipad and this Airport?

Thanks for any help.

 

[twerppoet]

Wild guess coming up.

You are connecting to an enterprise network with Windows servers? Your laptops are probably running Windows and can join the domain. The iPad's can't, so they don't get IP addresses from the Windows servers.

You can check this by going into their connection settings and see if they have an IP, and the right router and DNS server settings. Compare them with the laptops. Even if I'm wrong (and I can easily be) that should offer some clues as to what is going on.

 

[HedgeHogLuvva]

According to apple, yes

Might be worth a read

http://www.apple.com/ipad/business/integration/

Is itunes installed also, as it sounds like it is not what with neither iphones or ipads connecting

 

[RonF30]

Will look into both of these and thank you.

Interesting that maybe the Windows DHCP server cannot hand out an IP to any device such as an iPad? I will have to look into that. I would assume they follow the protocol standard?

I will update after more testing.

 

[jpp]

Now here's one for the network gurus - "why is it so?"

I have an existing network ADSL router with Wi-Fi on 2.4GHz. I added via Ethernet the Airport Express (ApX) and set it to 5HGz so as to create a second network. Everything is set to Static IPs - both the router and A/P and of course all my toys.

I have no problems running the iPad of either Wi-Fi network - great . Hooked up the audio output of the ApX to my hi-fi gear via Optical and it too works like a charm - another two smilies , no make that three .

But, I did not expect the the iPad, when connected to my 2.4GHz router Wi-Fi network, that it would work at all as the way I understand it, it's supposed to only work in direct combination with the ApX, i.e. it would only work if I set my iPad to the 5GHz Wi-Fi signal as that's what the ApX has been set up to.

So, how is the signal being routed from my router Wi-Fi back to the ApX, and if it's via Ethernet, how does it convert it/make it accessible to the audio output of the ApX?

Btw, the signal range of the 5GHz signal out of the ApX is a lot less than my 2.4GHz router signal. The path is through brick walls/concrete floors. Ons simple explanation is of course them much smaller antenna on the ApX compared to my Billion twin antenna router/modem.

I guess the question also is, how does the penetration of 5HGz compare to 2.4HGz. So much noise is being made about the advantages of 5HGz - maybe they only relate to a less crowded signal band. What have others experienced here?

 

[jpp]

Hmm...I might have to retract some of this. Today I'm browsing our local newspaper on-line whilst at the same time playing back some music on the iPad.

When I bring up the iPod Icon and bring up the Remote connection menu, I see only the ApX Wi-Fi connection. Going into the Settings immediately afterwards, I find though that the connection is to my 2.4GHz network.

Question therefore - is the iPad connecting to two Wi-Fi networks simultaneously?

 

[jpp]

Update again. No, I can verify that if I select my 2.4GHz network, it ONLY goes across that - not both. Looked at my router ports and saw that when on 2.4HGz the Ethernet port was active. It's not when I select 5GHz on the ApX as my connection. This is even though I have only the ApX connection shown on the iPad (whilst in iPod) and have selected it. The iPad must be redirecting that selection to my current one selected in the Global Settings Menu.

I've also verified that the iPad is on the iPad's globally selected network by moving it around - the 5GHz one has a lot less coverage than the 2.4HGz one.

So, it really back to my original post on this - how is the iPad communicating with the ApX's audio output when the Ipad is in fact connecting to my 2.4HGz router Wi-Fi network

 

[twerppoet]

Look at it this way. You first router, the one connected to the internet can only send packets (information) two places. To the local network it creates, and to the internet. I sends everything it does not recognize to the internet.

The second router does the same thing, but it sends everything it does not recognize to the first router.

This still probably would not do what you describe, but, if you are only serving DHCP addresses from the primary router, then all devices are on the same network. A device on the first router can see everything connected to it, and be directed to the internet, but there is nothing to tell it that nonlocal packets should be directed back to the first router.

The second router will see every thing on it's side, the redirect to the first router, which only sends it on to the internet if it does not recognize the address. So the second router can send stuff to devices on the first router.

It would work very poorly, and what could be done would depend on what device sends the request, the protocol etc. In short, very erratic behavior that sometimes works in one direction but almost never in the other.

The way around this is to set your second router up as a Gateway. This also may require the setting up of subnets and a bunch of other stuff on both routers that I really can't address here. Even if I had the manuals for both devices in front of me it would probably take me days to figure it out myself.

Of course this is all speculation. I don't know the exact settings of your routers and I have no idea how to set up the HP at all. So if what I said gives you some ideas, fine, if not just ignore it as the late night ramblings of a thoroughly out of date tech.

Good luck.

 

[jpp]

Thanks for your reply. With regard to your comments re reliability of the 2.4Hz connection to the ApX via Ethernet, I do have a problem in that on odd occasions, about every 15 min or so, that the connection drops out for a few seconds before resuming again. Not sure if this is an issue in with my 2.4HGz network, being perhaps on the same channels as some of my neighbours, or due to this circuitous route to the ApX. These drop-outs don't appear to occur when I connect to the 5GHz network on the ApX.

 

[twerppoet]

Could be inteference. Some corless phones use the 2.4GHz frequency too, and have been known to cause problems.

 

[jpp]

Just as a follow up, I just noticed recently that the iTunes on the PC has the ability to play back via the Airport Express. (Bottom right hand corner icon where you select either the PC speakers or the ApX)

That suggests that the signal is going out to it via/over Ethernet.

I then tried both network settings on my iPad and both the 2.4 and 5HGz settings worked fine. I expected that as it shouldn't really have anything to do with the iPad being on at all.

However, both the PC and iPad are aware that one or the other is using the ApX so you can't stream from both at the same time, which of course would make no sense anyway. It doesn't matter which of the two Wireless networks I choose.

Has anyone else played with any of this - just curious what you may have found.

 

[jpp]

Could be inteference. Some corless phones use the 2.4GHz frequency too, and have been known to cause problems.

Yes, I think you may be right. I changed channels on my 2.4GHz network and that improved things a lot. Most likely then interference from neighbouring networks. I don't have 2.4HGz appliances in my house - cordless phones are on 1.8HGz but who knows what the neighbours have.

 

[RonF30]

Thanks for all the discussion.

An update from original problem. Took the Airport to my office and another location and all worked as it should. Now these locations did not have Windows Servers providing DHCP.

Took AP back to original site to troubleshoot once more with all the suggestions here and other research. Plugged in with no config changes and now the iPads and iPhones work like they should - normal.

Very confusing on what the issue is/was. Because a couple of the employees have Droid devices and as of yesterday, they could not browse when connected to this Airport.

I think at this point we are going to replace the Airport with something like a linksys in the corporate Windows environment and then put the Airport at one of his homes. Too much time and money wasted on troubleshooting this issue.

FYI - in the past, I have added an Airport device, setup in Bridge mode with no DHCP, allowing a Windows server to provide DHCP, in a corporate environment and have had no issues. I like the signal strength of the devices but cannot deal with these types of issues.

I will have to say that it was the Airport Extreme's in those 2 corporate environments and I will now look to see the major differences.

Thanks for all the posts. I hope this can help someone.