How do you see Apple killing Android forever ?

Discussion in 'iPad 3 Forum' started by pk one, Apr 12, 2012.

  1. KevTN
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    KevTN iPF Novice

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    It funny this war of android vs I whatever. Both have strengths and weaknesses. I like the android platform because I enjoy playing with custom roms and other stuff.

    As far as importing your iTunes to android. Download double twist on your desktop and phone/tablet (free in the market) it will bring over everything from your iTunes and you put it on your android device.very simple.
  2. britpoper
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    britpoper iPF Novice

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    iPad2 was also the one that changed me. I was once an Apple hater before I owned an iPad2.

    As for the iOS vs Android debate, I don't see the benefit why we must doing it.
    Each iOS and Android have plus and minus point. I agree with all of you that had said it's all matter of preference.
    I do own both iOS and Android tablets (I have iPad2 and New iPad, I also own Samsung Galaxy Tab 8.9"), and both tablets proven served my needs well.
  3. RodC
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    RodC iPF Novice

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    Second that.

    A fundamental downside of any Android tablet, however, the choppy graphic transition between screens. I have yet to see a tablet (or any Anroid device) which can compete in terms of graphic smoothness and liquescency the iPad/iPhone achieve. Easy to test: just swipe your finger on the Home screen of any Tablet and see the icons move - terrible!
  4. andrzejls
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    andrzejls iPF Novice

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    AQ_OC
    I am like you old ms DOS (Dumb Operating System) and over 20 years UNIX sysadm (SUN ans Silicon Graphics) and this is one of the reasons I like Android OS (BTW UNIX based) and an ability to "mess around". As far specs comparison between iPad (dual core CPU and quad core GPU) and Transformer Prime (full quad core +1 CPU and 12 core GPU) there is really no contest. I am not even going to mention pitiful 0.3 MPix iPad front camera and 5 MPix back camera. For COL phones have better specs than that. Prime is the fastest tablet on the market and there is no dispute about that. I own Iphone 4 and I like it very much. When I transpose iPhone OS to the tablet, what is perfectly good for the phone, it becomes unacceptable on the tablet. Lack of expandability and access to filing system renders such tablet, for most part, useless. If you think about it, iPad is nothing more than iPhone without the phone, just larger. A lot of peoples talks about poor WiFi and GPS on Prime. IMHO WiFi os ok, GPS is useless, so Asus just issued, as you mentioned, "snap-on" dongle for full GPS at no cost to owners of the Prime (remember WiFi issue with iPhone 4 and rubber cover given away by Apple?). You also do understand, being former UNIX guy, that many users of Android OS are not "familiar" with it and complain about it. All electronic high end devices have some problems (iPad3 is not immune, WiFi and getting "hot") that we, end users have to deal with. Bashing one over the other (that does not apply to you) does not serve OA good of tablets technology. I hope that healthy competition between Apple and Android will result in rapid advance in technology and capability of tablets as well as smart phones.
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012
  5. andrzejls
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    andrzejls iPF Novice

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    Have you analyzed cost difference between buying 64MB phone verse adding micro SD Card. It might not make any difference to you, but some people like myself cannot afford Apple pricing and need to buy less expensive device with capability to add thinks to it (like memory) when they need it and when they can afford it.
  6. Kaykaykay
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    Kaykaykay iPad Wizard

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    I've seen none of this on my Samsung Galaxy Note.
  7. Skull One
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    Skull One iPad Junkie

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    Thank you for mentioning the Transformer Prime, it is the perfect example of why the Android OS is still learning to walk versus iOS which is already at a very healthy jog.

    While yes, Linux is a direct rebuild and off-shoot of Unix lets make sure we keep one thing always in mind, Android is a Linux based OS with a Dalvik Virtual Machine for running 98+% of their applications. iOS is a pure Unix OS running 100% native code. That clarification is key to understanding why Android phones and tablets require more than twice and sometimes up to four times the CPU and GPU power to even compete with an iOS device.

    Android is like Windows. Throw as much processing power as humanly possible and then pray the end user doesn't realize how bad the experience is. Lets review all the issues with Android and why it requires so much processing power.

    1) 7 major screen resolutions with 4 major GPU designs.

    This means every single screen IO draw requires that the programmer either directly address the screen or use an XML layout and pray the device maker tweaked all the math properly for their display. To deal with the GPU issues, the coder has to have a library of "optimized" code for that GPU design. And once their application is in the field then pray that a new device doesn't bog down under their design. The overhead this introduces is staggering in both code maintenance and overhead due to the translation needed to run on 170+ devices currently on the market.

    2) Dalvik Virtual Machine.

    Once considered the savior of Android because it would let any Java Application written with the Android SDK to work on any device regardless of CPU and GPU configuration, is now its direct Achilles heel. Which is why Google was finally forced to admit defeat and start developing the Android NDK (Native Development Kit) to start competing with iOS apps. Dalvik VM incurs so much overhead that a dual core CPU clocked at 1.5Ghz is still slower than a native iOS app running on a 800 Mhz dual core CPU. Pretty sad when you think about it.

    3) Memory.

    Where to even start with this one. Sure you can add more memory to an Android based phone but you incur a huge penalty in the process. First it has to transfer part of the app from the SD card to the main internal memory just to launch an app, you can thank the Dalvik VM for that. That's a dirty little secret that Android doesn't talk about. Having to have the code in two places just to operate properly. Then yf you have too many background processes running at once, Android sometimes has to abort loading and playing custom ringtones off of the SD card. And before you say "That problem is fixed!", don't kid yourself. They had to throw more CPU processing power at it to help MASK the issue, not FIX the original design flaw.

    4) Applications.

    Talk about a nightmare scenario. Android has a LOT of application. Each one wants to run code on boot up of the phone to instantiate its "hooks and special features" into the experience. This mean the average Android phone once loaded with all these great apps cause the phone to take longer to boot as well as, how do I put this, ah yes "settle down" just like a Windows PC before it is actually useable. Heck try making a call just after the lock screen pops up and watch how laggy things are if you don't wait another 30 seconds. That doesn't happen on iOS devices. Ever.



    I could go on about the flaws in Android from a technical aspect, but I think the above is a good primer. Don't get me wrong, I am not an iOS fan boy. I can rip in to Apple very easily. But there is a difference. The issue with iOS are not hardware or OS based complaints. They are aesthetic issues like not being able to change the color of a text box in Message. Or not being able to natively side load apps. Or the lack of the Swype keyboard. But unlike Android when I reboot an iOS phone, the second that lock screen appears, I can swipe to unlock and make a call without any lag in the user interface. You can only do that with an Android phone if you haven't installed any applications and the phone manufacturer left the device as pure ASOP build.

    Hopefully CPU and GPU manufactures will keep being able to design and build even faster processors for Android to finally overcome these issues without killing battery life in the process.
  8. Kaykaykay
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    Kaykaykay iPad Wizard

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    My main gripe about iOS is having to use iTunes to add non-iTunes content.

    I like iOS's ease of use -- always have -- and I always look at devices from that perspective, depending on what my needs are.

    With my Galaxy Note, adding non-iTunes content is a breeze, so that's a convenience factor for me. It's always a tradeoff, though, because Android has its drawbacks as well as its advantages. I actually prefer the uniform look of iDevices -- they look neater to me -- and I don't care to customize, so that's not a consideration for me.

    I'd prefer that the SD card access for my Note not require me to pull out the battery to get to the card. But I've just found recs for 64GB SD cards that apparently work in the Note, despite its specs saying it will take cards up to 32GBs, so I'm happy about that and am waiting for my new 64GB cards to arrive.
  9. zphone
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    zphone iPad Enthusiast

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    I think Skull pretty much nailed it in the technical side. The key thing to understand is that apple made compromises on iOS to make the user experience easier and faster. Android includes 'features' that are just not ready for mass consumption. Sure you can have uncontrolled background threads but you also have to take the resource sucking runaway threads with that gift. Sure put any video directly on your device by dragging it in from windows. But you can also easily drag in files that cause issues and play at best like a YouTube video on a 56k modem. The new tech generation delights at these challenges, but some of us have been there done that and would like to move on.

    The reason it's a compromise is that any feature you particularly like on Android adds quite a bit of complexity that most users just don't want to deal with.

    And even tech people with a programming background (like myself) that are over the giddy coolness of something they can do on android prefer the experience of iOS. That said I still like to jailbreak so I can have a more unix like experience on my iPhone and hopefully soon my iPad, but as said that probably affects a very small group of users.

    Next time you like something particularly cool on android try talking about it with your next door neighbor or the CEO of your company and watch their eyes glaze over.
  10. Kaykaykay
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    Kaykaykay iPad Wizard

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    I'm not techie -- just using what's convenient, which is why I started off with iOS devices. With my Galaxy Note, the ease of dragging and dropping music and movies is about convenient access to content, which is my key reason for owning mobile devices. I'm not interested in technical feats. Ideally, any device I own should allow me not to even think about its platform -- it should just work.
  11. Seadog
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    Seadog Super Moderator Staff Member

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    What I find amusing is that so many people think that just adding an SD card is going to allow them to buy a 32Gb SSD iPad and make it function like a 32Gb SSD. Not true. There is a substantial difference in how an SSD and a SD card treats data.
  12. Kaykaykay
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    Kaykaykay iPad Wizard

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    My movies are on SD card and I hit play and the movies play. That's my only interest in how they work, lol.
  13. bassman99
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    bassman99 iPF Novice

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    I'd watch the Oracle/Google battle: Oracle, Google Trial: Goliath Vs. Goliath - Development - Open Source - Informationweek

    Some would say that Google "pulled a fast one" with Dalvik as a way to get around Java API intellectual property issues; the courts will now decide.

    Personally, I can't stand Java-based apps (or the Dalvik equivalent), so I went with Apple, but really don't like the way Apple "locks you in" (e.g. no SD card!?).

    Too bad the iPad apps (and Android apps) have functionality limited to what we saw about 15 years ago with PCs. Still, I thought I'd give a tablet a try, and see how to survive in the "cloud-computing future" (<cringe>). Oh well, it still does a good job with web-browsing & email!
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012
  14. andrzejls
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    andrzejls iPF Novice

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    You nailed. The key is, you cannot add micro sd card to iPad tablet and you can to Prime. All I am interested is:if I hit "play" does it "play" or not. kaykaykay, good post.
  15. RAC
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    RAC iPad Junkie

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    I have iPad 1 and Galaxy Tab 7.7 so I am in a good position to compare.

    Galaxy pros:-
    Smaller lighter and more portable. The iPad feels bulky and heavy when I go back to it.
    Open file system.
    Micro SD card.
    USB connectvity. Copy files to/from USB stick.
    GPS on WiFi only device.
    No iTunes.

    iPad pros:-
    There times when a lager screen is necessary (e.g. when using SplahTop).
    I feel a bit safer usng the iPad secure transactions, probably not justified.
    While the Galaxy display is quite good, the iPad display is somehow better (even iPad 1).


    Sent from my GT-P6810 using Tapatalk 2
  16. fsogamer
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    fsogamer iPF Noob

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    Ya, i have a iPad 3 and a acer tegra 7 inch... I was stuck at android 3.2 forever but it was more tablet friendly than 2.3. Then when ics came out i felt like i was gonna need to move on to a new tablet to have my droid and my iOS fix... But, i found that with a little searching and reading that i was able to install ics on my acer and it felt like it was finally useful again... Apple may have updates and fixes available across the board but if you look almost all android phones and tablets can be upgraded manually without rooting... And its easier than you think... Plus on top of the card slots, usb ports, and other hook up options offered on even the cheap models most always come with a hdmi port for wired mirroring... What did we really get with our iPad 3's really? A new display that requires bigger games? And some changes that really don't set it apart from the competition in true reality... Macs have everything a windows pc has because thats what mac users want right? Well shouldn't apple do the same with the iPhones and iPads? I just don't really understand... iPad is the best there is in quality for what we spend but when cheap items outdo the expensive ones it makes you think for a minute... Would you buy a car with no a/c for more money than one with a/c?

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    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2012
  17. DaveSt
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    DaveSt iPad Junkie

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    The first step for Apple to kill off Android forever? Get rid ofxxxxxxxx Itunes. World domination might be soon to follow.





    Be carefully what you imply as you may be the one that is banned not iTunes.... Show respect please. ... Administrator
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2012
  18. DaveSt
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    DaveSt iPad Junkie

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    Then again, the Ipad doesn't have a SSD either. It has a flash drive just like my iPhone does. That is still loads better than an add-on SD card performance-wise but it still isn't a SSD.
  19. Seadog
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    Seadog Super Moderator Staff Member

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    You need to learn what an SSD is. A SSD is a series of NAND flash memory units on a board. While it is the same technology as the SD card flash, it is a totally different animal. The SSD is specifically designed for use in a computer system. It is up to 100 times faster acting than a SD card. CF cards are several times faster than SD cards. SD cards are designed for use in portable devices like cameras. They are not as robust as a SSD, and are more likely to get corrupted. A SSD also has a controller which allocates how the memory stores information and protects the memory.
  20. fsogamer
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    fsogamer iPF Noob

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    I agree. iTunes only gets more complicated with each release and to have devices that are dedicated to it is like saying that you cant run windows unless your online 24/7... At least when you break the iOS and open up the system you get a more independent platform that you can work with, but you do loose some security and open yourself up to bugs... Thus begins the windows experience... I will never forget when i got the first iPhone and broke it.... I ended up with a virus.... A virus on a iOS device? I bet ol' bill gates loves it when we do that and basically turn our great apple product into a open system like windows... But, i will still have open way before i have it closed... I just understand what i need to look out for...

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    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2012

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