Does Apple Cheat on their taxes like Google's 31B?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by zipur, Mar 18, 2011.

  1. zipur
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    zipur iPad Junkie

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    Linked Here and HERE

    I severed in the USMC to protect and server America. I never and have never cheated on my tax as I have observed firsthand how wonderful America is. As a citizen it is my responsibility to pay my fair share of taxes. Now with reductions in public support, teacher, first responders, it really bugs me that Google would do this. I have not found this to be true with Apple. Therefore I will never support Anything Google. (Period) end of story. I hope your join me and moreover I hope you pay your fair share of taxes. Our schools need it and its cheaper to teach kid than it is to house them in the penitentiary. For whom much is given much is expected.
  2. Cadena96
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    Cadena96 iPF Novice

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    Doesn't mean people follow the bible, 42.12.48....the point is it's america, and it's a legal loophole, but yeah screw google, they're major aholes...I like apple though...steve jobs cheats on his taxes, his annual salary is 1$, has been since he took ownership of apple in late 90's...when apple turned around with ipod and iphone etc etc...the beginning of the research...everything he is paid is "gifts" 80 million dollar jets, houses, etc etc...he buys what he wants as a gift...it's actually really smart, I think you should learn tax law...the problem is people like john kerry can pay 8,000$ in taxes when he made 44 million the year he ran for president...(including his wife's heinz ketchup), and own 8 houses at that point..property taxes? gee...something's wrong here....
  3. zipur
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    zipur iPad Junkie

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    Yes it is. and don't get me wrong I choose to pay my fair share. But its like this. I went on a business trip to San Jose. The hotel had free breakfast, Lunch was catered and most of the dinners were also. When I got back to the office my boss came to my office and said you need to charge more for your meals. Long story short, I didn’t change it . In fact 19 years and I still comp true trip expenses. If they give me too much change at the store I take it back. I have a long story with an 2 HP desktop and Fry's only charged for one. I took it back although my son complained. I guess it’s just me.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2011
  4. tzimisce
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    tzimisce iPad Addict

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    I also served in the military (I'm not American) and I also pay my taxes, but I do make a clear distinction between being tax savvy enough to minimize what you need to legally pay (possibly through the services of a chartered accountant), and "evil" criminal tax evasion.

    Tax law is complex, but taking the time to talk to a financial advisor, to learn up and know what you should or should not need to pay, and structuring your finances accordingly is simply common sense.
  5. Gabriel1
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    Gabriel1 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I have to agree with that, I don't know about the USA but here in the UK many companies would fail if they didn't take advantage of the tax laws where they can. There is sometimes a fine line between legal and illegal when it comes to taxes but here's the rub, governments know exactly what these companies are doing but they also know that any failed business just adds to the tax burden on everyone else with increased unemployment.

    Google are also a company with a similar situation to the banks in that they can operate from anywhere at anytime, if you make life difficult for them they will head off to a different country, some of which would offer big $ just to get them into their country........if this happens you have increased unemployment, increased tax bills and no discernible benefit.

    Whilst I sympathise with the OP's viewpoint it is a much bigger issue than if or where they pay their taxes.

    The Archangel
  6. SporkLover
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    Google employs great Tax Lawyers and Accountants. It's not cheating, because it is all legal.

    In fact, many other companies are trying to follow their model and reduce their tax liabilties.

    If you want to vilify someone, re-vector your efforts towards the government that allows those loopholes in the tax laws.

    For the record, Apple does shift income to subsidiaries in lower taxed parts of the world..... they just aren't as brutally efficient as Google.
  7. Hasty
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    Does any large corporation pay "fair" taxes?
    Taxation is widely distorted by lobbyists and interest groups to ensure exemptions and adjustments for corporate interests.
    Throw in tax lawyers and any concept of fairness is meaningless......
  8. DaveSt
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    I agree with this 100%. If you are going to avoid Google for finding a way around taxes you might as well move into a cabin in the woods and stop doing business with any major corporation in the US. They all have major tax loopholes. I remember reading an interesting article from Warren Buffett where he was shocked to find out that his secretary had a higher tax burden (by percentage) than he did. You have to be very wealthy or very poor to live tax free.
  9. tzimisce
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    tzimisce iPad Addict

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    Here in Australia, income tax can reach a whopping 30-40%, so you'd be foolish not to find all the legal loopholes to avoid getting slugged for the full amount. Even getting an accountant to do your returns for a few hundred dollars, so that he or she can save you thousands by knowing what you can get tax exemptions for and structuring the way you file your returns is being smart (from individuals to corporations.)
  10. SporkLover
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  11. henry2
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    Yes the tax the law is a bit of complex and it takes a person who can understand it and yes i do take all the breaks i can get on the tax codes from the basic cost of clothing i buy for work to the travel and eating out expense on the road and car repairs and gas that i buy when out on the road useing my own personal vehicle as a work vehicle ..

    So anything that me personaly i can get back from the tax code i will do because in the long run it saves me money and yes i pay out a hefty taxs to the state of CA and the federal side at times and i do feel that anything that i can do to get part of the money i pay out in taxs back at the end of the year

    For i pay more in State taxs than i do in federal taxs so i'm looking to do anything to get the money back
  12. Bob Maxey
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    Bob Maxey iPad Addict

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    Very well said.

    But let me ask, what about me? I do not own a home or have any children. Why cant I also take advantage of those tax loopholes the married homeowners can take advantage of?

    Seems rather unfair that some of you can "cheat" the government out of what you should pay. Just an illustration, folks . . . Not calling anyone here a cheat.

    Google and others take advantage of the law and they are cheaters. You take advantage of the law and it is fine.

    Bob
  13. tzimisce
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    tzimisce iPad Addict

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    You can always talk to a tax accountant and/or financial planner to work out what suits your particular situation. In fact, over here it's against the law for someone who isn't licensed to be giving financial advice.
  14. Seadog
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    Seadog Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The sad fact is that with a basic tax law, without all the loopholes, the amount due from the average taxpayer would be a lot less in an ideal world. Reality is that if we closed the loopholes, thousands of accountants and lawyers would go out of business. It would devastate a large portion of society with deep pockets. Since they have political clout, we will never see reform. It is the same as our legal system, the lawyers own the political powers. They are bloodsuckers like mosquitoes that have been able to ban DDT.

    And even if they did pass taxation reform, it would not decrease taxes, just increase wasteful government spending.
  15. Bob Maxey
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    And guess what my Tax people do? They look for ways to LEGALLY shelter my money and we are back to the debate: Does Google/Apple cheat because they use legal loopholes and current tax law? No, is the answer.

    And my point: why can't I have the same perks you married folks with kids take advantage of? I am not against the deductions people take, just trying to make a point.

    You will not win this one; Google and Apple do not cheat, period.

    Bob
  16. Mountainbikermark
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    Mountainbikermark iPad Addict

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    Put a flat tax on any transaction, profitable or not, and the revenue would increase, waste would go way down in order to ensure a profit, and all those unemployed accountants and tax agents could become financial advisors for the corporations to invest their profits into R&D
    Put a flat tax on salaries ,eliminate gas taxes, phone taxes, fees on phone taxes and taxes on fees for phone taxes and those former accountants could become financial advisors for the average citizen to invest their windfall into while revenues would increase into the government due to more people being employed to make all the techno junk we will suddenly have more money to buy them with.
    Don't believe the politicians who say corporate taxes are too high. In theory yes but there are soooo many loopholes it's actually pretty low after all the deductions. Don't believe the politicians who say if elected they'll make the fat cats pay their fair share. Who do you think is buying the ads where the politicians say they will fix the system? What do they get for backing the candidate? More loopholes.
    Google is just one example, GE would be another. They made billions in profit, kept it offshore and on legal paper look like they lost money. Many corporations not only don't pay any taxes but get bailouts, refunds,grants, you name it, even though they made millions or billions in NET profit. BP, EXXON, SHELL, etc are few examples of that. BP will write off the cost of cleaning up their mess in the gulf, bet on it.
    For you former military ; THANK YOU TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILIES. YOUR SACRIFICE WAS NOT IN VAIN


    Support Our Troops!
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  17. tzimisce
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    tzimisce iPad Addict

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    Where have I said that Google or Apple cheat?

    And I don't understand your point: married couples with kids have children's expenses that single, childless people don't. If the law includes certain provisions for people in different situations, then that's how it's structured. If that gives you a sense of injustice, maybe you should talk to your local govt representative and make your views known.
  18. SweetPoison
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    I have learned a lot in this thread ~ but let's simmer down a bit, Okay?
  19. Prasius
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    ...and the law makes certain provisions for certain companies in different positions. The principle of it is exactly the same; companies change their situations in order to make financial sense. The same way as there are plenty of people out there who change their situation to make financial sense to them.

    Things like sales tax and tax on fuel are considered to be a tax of choice, you choose to buy those items and therefore pay the tax.

    Now, I, and I'm fairly sure the poster above - consider having children to be a similar choice. You don't HAVE to have children, and frankly, it's not really my problem that they're expensive. In the same way that I doubt you'd have much sympathy if I went and bought a Ferrari and then complained about the running costs. It's a lifestyle choice. (waits for the emotional outcry from parents about their offspring being the MOST precious little darlings in the world.. *yawn* ;) ). I'd love a supercar more.

    So its actually very similar to Google choosing to base it's headquaters somewhere with considerably lower tax - tax avoidance (where you avoid paying tax by legitimate meants - ever bought something duty free on holiday? - tax avoidance) is a very different thing to tax evasion (fail to pay tax which you are obligated to pay by law).
  20. Bob Maxey
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    For the record, I have no problem with the deductions most of you can take. Like deductions related to home ownership or children. If the deduction is available, certainly, you should take advantage.

    But to complain because Google or Apple takes advantage of the law requires that you also complain about home owners and families with children taking deductions. There is no difference; you, Apple, and Google are using the existing tax code to save money.

    So deduct away and if you can get your taxes to near zero, go for it.

    Bob

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