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Drinking the Kool-Aid

This is a discussion on Drinking the Kool-Aid within the iPad Reviews forums, part of the Apple iPad Discussions category; Originally Posted by Hasty That's the trouble right there. "Crippled" It's not crippled, but your expectations are faulty, based on assumptions about what computers can ...

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Thread: Drinking the Kool-Aid

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasty View Post
    That's the trouble right there.
    "Crippled"

    It's not crippled, but your expectations are faulty, based on assumptions about what computers can and can't do.
    It's a tablet.
    This!

    I wonder if you realize that this is a private forum and that we have nothing to do with Apple or any of the products they sell.

    This forum exists so that iPad owners (and potential owners) can exchange in formation and ideas that will hopefully maximize the enjoyment and utility of the iPad. So as my esteemed colleague Col.Bris has said, if you come here and start enumerating the perceived "faults" of the iPad in terms of how they do not meet your needs or expectations, then you shouldn't really be surprised by the tone of the answers you have been getting.

    And just for the record, all of the followers of Jim Jones that died from being poisoned with a mixture of Valium, chloral hydrate, cyanide, and Phenergan in 1978, drank this "suicide cocktail" mixed with Flavor-Aid, NOT Kool-Aid.
    Last edited by iPadCharlie; 04-17-2011 at 12:34 PM.

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  3. #12
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    I am with you jim. Apparently you aren't supposed to provide any negative reviews in the review section. I think my droid is better than my iPad 2. But I am still trying to use it.

    As for the kool aid reference, apparently not everyone gets it. It's not a reference to the suicide cult. It is a pop culture saying that implies people go along without questioning something. I think it describes in general the apple community and media. They love Steve.

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by msukc
    As for the kool aid reference, apparently not everyone gets it. It's not a reference to the suicide cult. It is a pop culture saying that implies people go along without questioning something. I think it describes in general the apple community and media. They love Steve.
    You might want to look that up before posting. It IS a pop culture reference, at least in the United States, but I'm almost positive it originated as a reference to the Jonestown mass murder/suicide.

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJim

    I always wonder whether to blame problems on conspiracy or incompetence. But there's an old saying: once is coincidence, twice is happenstance, but three times is enemy activity. There's just a common them running through my 3 above questions, and they all revolve around deliberate restrictions and control on Apple's part.

    Would value any solutions to the above bugs.
    Let's see. Your first concern was that Apple controls the content. Check - though a lot of people get around that just fine. Your second was that for some reason one particular app isn't working properly. How does that equate to your common theme? The third was that it won't handle your music in your favorite fashion. Again, how does this demonstrate your thesis?

    As for the implication that we're all blindly following St. Steve, huh? Did it ever occur to you that the iPad might actually do the things that some of us want so its shortcomings, which are certainly present, aren't as big a deal to us as they are to you? I guess I just don't understand why you would choose to transform a moderately reasoned exposition of the iPad's shortcomings as it relates to your uses into an attack on the people for whom it does work?

    A bug, BTW, is when a program doesn't do what it was designed to do (your point 2 above), not when it doesn't do what you want it to do. As far as I can see only the iBook issue is a bug, the others are examples of design decisions that don't mesh with your desires. That's not to say that your desires are wrong, it's just that as a developer I get tired of people trying to tell me that because a program isn't working the way they want it to it's a bug.

    Oh, and I'll believe that Android has 'cleaned the iPhone's clock' when a) any one Android phone outsells the iPhone and b) Apple doesn't sell as many iPhones as they make. No horse in this race personally since I don't own either of them but it seems to me that Apple is still doing just fine with their phone sales.

  6. #15
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    My point is missed. When someone says something like "they are drinking the kool aid". It doesn't mean they are going along on a suicide pact even if the reference originated from that. I have heard the saying countless times and have never even heard that was the origin. I would bet that many, even most, people that state the phrase never even heard of Jonestown.

    My point is that people are referencing Jonestown and flavor aid or taste. I may be wrong but I think Jim meant people are blindly following Steve jobs a bit including Jim himself; which he kind of regrets drinking the kool aid.

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by msukc
    My point is missed. When someone says something like "they are drinking the kool aid". It doesn't mean they are going along on a suicide pact even if the reference originated from that.
    No, your point wasn't missed. I was simply pointing out that your dismissal of the previous posters point as being irrelevant was incorrect. It was relevant in that it points out the origin of the phrase and that the origin is in error all at once.

    The phrase means blindly following without thought, but it came about because of Jonestown as it was reported that that is what Jones' followers did.

  8. #17
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    It does mean to blindly follow someone regardless of the consequences. Over 900 of his followers drank the suicide cocktail for one reason and one reason only... because Jim Jones told them to!

    But hey, don't believe me!

    Jonestown - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1991-C4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hasty View Post
    That's the trouble right there.
    "Crippled"

    It's not crippled, but your expectations are faulty, based on assumptions about what computers can and can't do.
    It's a tablet.
    This!

    I wonder if you realize that this is a private forum and that we have nothing to do with Apple or any of the products they sell.

    This forum exists so that iPad owners (and potential owners) can exchange in formation and ideas that will hopefully maximize the enjoyment and utility of the iPad. So as my esteemed colleague Col.Bris has said, if you come here and start enumerating the perceived "faults" of the iPad in terms of how they do not meet your needs or expectations, then you shouldn't really be surprised by the tone of the answers you have been getting.

    And just for the record, all of the followers of Jim Jones that died from being poisoned with a mixture of Valium, chloral hydrate, cyanide, and Phenergan in 1978, drank this "suicide cocktail" mixed with Flavor-Aid, NOT Kool-Aid.
    Lets make the apple fans happy by changing the term Kool-Aid to apple jack,or to our UK fans its CIDER.

    Al.

  10. #19
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    @Catfiend My view is that I was not overly offensive, but more that Apple users proved overly defensive; people can form their own conclusions based on the above. More importantly, your post #14 is the first to directly address the issues I've raised. My question to any willing to discuss this heresy is, how do people get around Apple's control of content just fine? What are good ways to access content over my network? Do I in fact have to convert all my audio and video to Apple's semi-proprietary formats like ALAC and mp4? If we want to address these questions, we shouldn't mince words about what it is and why it is. The danger of this directness is that people will take it personally, and want to talk about me personally, or anything but the actual technical questions.

    My second point was related because IMHO it shows a pattern of Apple treating non-Apple standards as second class citizens. And, while we probably don't need to get into that whole discussion, IIRC there are many other examples of Apple (and Microsoft) brutalizing standards. This is actually, one of the main differences from Android. And the specific mechanism is, when we surrender to ALAC or mp4, we've locked ourselves in to Apple. And we may get touchy about discussing that and its downsides.

    I confess in another post that the iPad does do enough things that I want, even does them well, and that's why I'm keeping it. But I like to think that in a forum we could discuss some perceived failings, to help people make informed decisions, to look for workarounds, or even that Apple in their infallible wisdom might make some changes some year.

    I don't agree with your brushing off my third issue as "doesn't handle my music in my favorite fashion". I view it as a rather more serious and indeed deliberate breach on Apple's part. We've entrusted Apple with sometimes thousands of dollars worth of music. We've trusted iTunes to continue to offer the same functionality. But now the iTunes (or iPod app) on the iPad has removed the ability to access a remote library. Or, maybe you know a technical work-around we could discuss.

    Devices running Android encompassed more than half of all U.S. smartphone sales in the fourth quarter of 2010. Android increased its U.S. market share lead to 53 percent as 2010 closed, up 9 percentage points over Q3–Apple’s (NASDAQ:AAPL) iOS slipped 4 percentage points to account for 19 percent of sales, tied with Research In Motion’s (NASDAQ:RIMM) BlackBerry (down 2 percentage points).

    According to Wikipedia, "Drinking the Kool-Aid" is a phrase and metaphor, used in the United States and Canada, that means to become a firm believer in something, to accept an argument or philosophy wholeheartedly or blindly without critical examination. I also thought it implied a cult-like devotion and closed mindedness, often resulting in ad hominem arguments rather than addressing specific issues.
    Last edited by BigJim; 04-17-2011 at 07:49 PM.

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJim
    @Catfiend My view is that I was not overly offensive, but more that Apple users proved overly defensive; people can form their own conclusions based on the above. More importantly, your post #14 is the first to directly address the issues I've raised. My question to any willing to discuss this heresy is, how do people get around Apple's control of content just fine? What are good ways to access content over my network? Do I in fact have to convert all my audio and video to Apple's semi-proprietary formats like ALAC and mp4?
    "Drinking the Kool Aid", "heresy"? Yep, offensive tone. At least I find it to be so. Both are related to religion/faith at one level or another.

    Get around the restrictions by jailbreaking - get your content elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigJim
    My second point was related because IMHO it shows a pattern of Apple treating non-Apple standards as second class citizens.
    Huh? iBooks drops the ball on some silly pdf's and it's a pattern? FWIW, I haven't had a problem with iBooks and PDFs yet but the vast majority of my books - a coupple hundred at last count - are in ePub format and IBooks handles them just fine. Note, ePub isn't some special Apple format.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigJim
    And, while we probably don't need to get into that whole discussion, IIRC there are many other examples of Apple (and Microsoft) brutalizing standards. This is actually, one of the main differences from Android. And the specific mechanism is, when we surrender to ALAC or mp4, we've locked ourselves in to Apple. And we may get touchy about discussing that and its downsides.
    No problem for me talking about Apple's downsides - I've never owned a Mac or an iPhone. The Apple products I have purchased were purchased with my eyes open to possible issues but I felt that the upsides outweigh the downsides.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigJim
    Devices running Android encompassed more than half of all U.S. smartphone sales in the fourth quarter of 2010. Android increased its U.S. market share lead to 53 percent as 2010 closed, up 9 percentage points over Q3–Apple’s (NASDAQ:AAPL) iOS slipped 4 percentage points to account for 19 percent of sales, tied with Research In Motion’s (NASDAQ:RIMM) BlackBerry (down 2 percentage points).
    And your point is? Name the handset maker that is selling significantly more smartphone handsets than Apple. We're waiting. Sure, Android in aggregate has more of the market, but Apple has the entire iOS market while the Android market is fragmented amongst. Different suppliers. Windows has a much larger share of the personal compute market but Apple is the number two PC maker. They're probably quite happy with having 100% of the iOS/OS-X market.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigJim
    According to Wikipedia, "Drinking the Kool-Aid" is a phrase and metaphor, used in the United States and Canada, that means to become a firm believer in something, to accept an argument or philosophy wholeheartedly or blindly without critical examination. I also thought it implied a cult-like devotion and closed mindedness, often resulting in ad hominem arguments rather than addressing specific issues.
    Which is why it's considered to be derogatory or offensive.


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