I should've read this thread sooner to get a better understanding. I only mentioned the name of a certain app and recieving a 1st warning for it. I know saying what it does or even where to get it is violating forum rules but the mere mention of the name? Come on man..give me a break...sheeez. Juss saying!

Originally Posted by Demandarin

I should've read this thread sooner to get a better understanding. I only mentioned the name of a certain app and recieving a 1st warning for it. I know saying what it does or even where to get it is violating forum rules but the mere mention of the name? Come on man..give me a break...sheeez. Juss saying!

All it takes is the name, then Google finds it. And . . . we are here as guests so we should obey.

Bob

Originally Posted by Bob Maxey

Originally Posted by Demandarin

I should've read this thread sooner to get a better understanding. I only mentioned the name of a certain app and recieving a 1st warning for it. I know saying what it does or even where to get it is violating forum rules but the mere mention of the name? Come on man..give me a break...sheeez. Juss saying!

All it takes is the name, then Google finds it. And . . . we are here as guests so we should obey.

Bob

Well said Bob ~

I am bumping this thread for those of us that need to refresh our memory with regards to the Forum Rules in the iPad Hacking section.

Originally Posted by Bob Maxey

Originally Posted by Linkreincarnate

I have to say that I'll follow the rules but I don't agree with the no roms rule. You're allowing the corporations to bully people out of fair use. Roms are entirely legal provided you own a legitimate copy of the game. All of these websites getting in a huff over roms should research the law.

I really hate to be a disagreeable putz-nubbin, but why change now?(LOL) I hate that my first post is a rather acrid and disagreeable one.

If I understand you correctly, you are talking about those little chips (or in this case, a software equivalent) for all of those wonderful games we dropped quarter after quarter into at the local arcade. The ROMs are then used with a program like MAME. Correct?

I know a few devotees of the old games and they have hundreds of games on disk. Like Donkey Kong, Pac Man and the like. They do not own the real arcade game because owning hundreds of arcade machines is out of the question due to a lack of real estate and space.

So my answer is this: you are wrong, unless I am missing something. I own lots of IP created by others, as do you and all of us gathered here. Just because we own copies of this and that (ROMs, books, music, etc) we do not have any legal right to post copies on the web. I cant for the life of me find a law that allows you to post copies of copyright protected IP just because you own the original.

And a cursory search reveals hundreds of sites in which you can procure ROMs and emulators. Wanna bet those that are making these images available do not own the game or those that DL them do not own the game?

You claim fair use... do you know what that means? In the world of literature and magazines, fair use is not entire use. You cannot post significant parts of a book or article legally. So I cannot for the life of me figure out if you are confused about the legal definition of the term Fair Use.

Forgive me if I am missing a few fine points and I certainly do not mean disrespect or harm. It is just that so many on the web cite fair use when it clearly does not apply. As a freelance writer, IP and its protection is important.

Bob Maxey

A. No one was defending uploading roms to the internet. That is a clever straw man arguement though. I was defending the legality of roms and emulators in general. The original poster went out of their way to state that all roms and emulators are illegal which is false. Some roms may be illegal and no emulators are ever illegal. If they were zophar's domain would have been history lomg ago.
B. As a game developer I understand the need to protect my intelectual property rights, I do not however feel the need to erode fair use laws to bolster my profits.
C. I know exactly what fair use means. Beyond allowing partial use in other works for educational and parody purposes, fair use also creates a legal right to make backup copies of your software, music, and videogames. I said nothing about posting those things on the internet, that is just another straw man arguement. Maybe you should have checked that YOU really knew what fair use is before posting. Had you even considered that all of those people on the internet crying fair use were right? How did you think it was legal to rip a cd onto your computer?

anyway dont break anything getting off your high horse...

[quote=Linkreincarnate;167384]

Originally Posted by Bob Maxey

Originally Posted by Linkreincarnate

A. No one was defending uploading roms to the internet. That is a clever straw man arguement though. I was defending the legality of roms and emulators in general. The original poster went out of their way to state that all roms and emulators are illegal which is false. Some roms may be illegal and no emulators are ever illegal. If they were zophar's domain would have been history lomg ago.
B. As a game developer I understand the need to protect my intelectual property rights, I do not however feel the need to erode fair use laws to bolster my profits.
C. I know exactly what fair use means. Beyond allowing partial use in other works for educational and parody purposes, fair use also creates a legal right to make backup copies of your software, music, and videogames. I said nothing about posting those things on the internet, that is just another straw man arguement. Maybe you should have checked that YOU really knew what fair use is before posting. Had you even considered that all of those people on the internet crying fair use were right? How did you think it was legal to rip a cd onto your computer?

anyway dont break anything getting off your high horse...

Ouch . . . I fell off my high horsey and it hurt.

Illegal ROMS are the main reason emulators exist and you bloody well know it. Every point you are trying to make fails and I have the rule of law on my side of the argument. All you seem to have is this idea of fair use. I definitely understand that provision of thew copyright act because I work with it every day. As do the lawyers that watch out for problems us writers might cause their client's printed materials.

And you are correct, emulators are not illegal. But since they are used (for the most part) to play these illegal games, saying they are strictly legal is a matter for another debate. I mean how do you address the question of if something should be allowed that exists (for the most part) to play games that are illegally produced and distributed.

Fair use does not apply to ROMS. It does not apply to most of the songs and videos on YouTube, either. Although it is claimed by posters that are clueless. If you really are a game developer, there is no real difference between me making ROMS available and me making your games available. If you want to improperly claim fair use, then allow me to do the same.

This is why forum rules prohibit links to web sites offering ROMS. Doubt that, then ask a moderator. Quite likely we will both incur an infraction just for arguing this today.

I don't think much more needs to be said about that.

Yes, you can make backups of your software and music. That does not mean you can post those "backups" on the Internet and make them available to the planet. If I create a ROM from my vintage video game and post it on the web, it is not a backup and I likely do not do it for any reason other than to make it available to people that want to play Astra Wars or whatever the game is.

Finally, ask Nintendo or any other game manufacturer about this and they will tell you exactly the same thing. And do not try the argument that you just want to backup the game, it will not fly and if you are dragged into court, the judge will side with Nintendo. That is just how it is, so get over it.

So, to clarify, if you use legal emulators to run illegally produced and distributed games, you are in violation of the law, period. Does not matter how you try and try again to justify it... it is illegal and that is that.

Bob

Originally Posted by Bob Maxey

Quite likely we will both incur an infraction just for arguing this today.


Bob

No. But this is a warning to both of you. Simmer down.

Originally Posted by Demandarin

I should've read this thread sooner to get a better understanding. I only mentioned the name of a certain app and recieving a 1st warning for it. I know saying what it does or even where to get it is violating forum rules but the mere mention of the name? Come on man..give me a break...sheeez. Juss saying!

If you spend any time on the net, you will likely find all sorts of things that are clearly in violation of some rule or law. I think this forum is spot on when they ban and scream and yell and punish someone for merely mentioning the name of a program that exists solely to steal other people's property. I would hate to see this place become a clearing house for stolen property.

1- Stuff from the Apple Store
2- Stuff from the Android Store
3- Illegal game ROMS
4- Stolen wallpaper, music, games, programs, on and on.
5- Stolen movies

All of the above is readily available and stealing it is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Some people cite "Fair Use" without knowing what the hell that really means. Trust me gang, I KNOW exactly what it means and I know the current copyright laws and the DMCA rules and regulations.

It does not mean illegal ROMS can be posted and it certainly does not mean you can make copies of these games. It does not mean entire songs from hard working artists can be uploaded to YouTube. It does not mean entire books can be made available. It does not mean stealing the programs from Apple developers and cracking them so others can get them for free

It does not mean most things IP thieves use to justify their nefarious acts.

So like it or not, forum moderators control what we post because it is right to do so and if they allowed it, all they would be doing is help hard working artists and designers and programmers lose income. And I will always stand up for those that actually create things and struggle long and hard, just to have their efforts taken from them by some Arse that would NEVER EVER accept someone walking into their home and stealing a ten spot from the dining room table.

Bob

Originally Posted by SweetPoison

Originally Posted by Bob Maxey

Quite likely we will both incur an infraction just for arguing this today.


Bob

No. But this is a warning to both of you. Simmer down.

I've said my piece, and that's about all I need to say on the subject.

Bob

What else can I say but, Thank you Bob!

Okay ~

You can unsimmer. This was very cool to read!

Thanks, Bob


So like it or not, forum moderators control what we post because it is right to do so and if they allowed it, all they would be doing is help hard working artists and designers and programmers lose income. And I will always stand up for those that actually create things and struggle long and hard, just to have their efforts taken from them by some Arse that would NEVER EVER accept someone walking into their home and stealing a ten spot from the dining room table.